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« László Sólyom refuses to budge | Main | Language of Fear: Fidesz communication (II) »

May 11, 2008

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Sandor

On the one hand you should never forget Orban's totally flummoxed face and demeanor, as he was casting around for solution during the pre-runoff weeks of the election. He had no idea what to do and how to do it.
On the other hand we should also remember the aggressive and ruthless campaign he and his government perpetrated when they took over every possible position in the economy, by blackmail, arm-twisting and any other possible method as soon as they came to power in '98.
The really pitiful thing is that the present government was trying to be reasonable and measured in a country where there is simply no purchase for reason and moderation. The result is the vacuum where the voice cannot be heard.
In fact I must conclude that the government justifiably suffered the defeat of the referendum and the loss of public support, because they were living in the illusion that they can win by the superior argument. However, nobody was interested in that. It was their duty, to find the policy and the means of communication that reaches to the electorate in order to effect change and introduce their reforms. But they failed miserably, because they refused to engage in the rhetorical trickery that served Fidesz so well. And by now it is probably too late to start. The electorate is still demanding to be pampered with the historicising and pseudo-patriotic hogwash that works for Fidesz, but which the government thinks to be beneath their dignity.
I am afraid, the rest of the elctoral cycle will be spent with shameless pandering by both sides, trying to appeal to the lowest an most base sentiments. In that however, the Fidesz has more and better training and no inhibitions.

Bill

I definitely agree with you Sandor. I remember the run-up to the 2006 elections - Fidesz was promising everyone buckets of free money, rainbows forever, etc. etc. I don't really know why people are buying it now more than then, however.

It seems to me that Fidesz has taken its cues from the American neo-conservatives - Orban reminds me a lot of a loudmouthed version of Reagan. However, the castle the neo-cons built for themselves is crumbling around them, because they ignored fundamentals such as financial responsibility, civil rights, democratic participation, compromise, etc. Orban might be flying high for a while, but I don't expect for his eventual crash to be any less spectacular than the current crash of the US neo-cons.

Anonymous

****It seems to me that Fidesz has taken its cues from the American neo-conservatives - Orban reminds me a lot of a loudmouthed version of Reagan.****

@Bill

Ludicrous. Methinks you are projecting just a wee bit, no? Orban and Reagan are almost diametrically opposed in almost very way, except for their hatred of the Communists. Ironically, Viki's position on the economy is socialist(!) -- redistribute income and nationalize as much as possible.

RR was entirely the opposite, a free-marketer and an advocate for personal responsibility, and one who CUT, not introduced red-tape and regulation.

Also, RR wasn't a neo-con. He couldn't have been as that term hadn't been invented yet and the neo-con concepts were far from fully formed.

-T H E T O A D

Anonymous

Also, if you haven't read the Magyar Nemzet recently. The hard-core anti-American slant is impossible to miss.

-TT

New World Order

If only Orban were a "loud mouthed" Reagan. Sadly, he is far more Pat Buchanan (if one is forced to make American analogies).

But more than anything, by his rhetoric, Orban is not fitting into protype that is now sadly common in Central Europe of a "right wing socialist". The most prominent of this type are the Kaczynski brothers in Poland. The former mayor of Cluj-Napoca (Gheorghe Funar)is also a fairly good example of this sort of politician. Fico-though from the left-also shares many of the same policies (i.e., eliminating the visit fee for trips to the Dr.) and ideological outlook as Orban.

I think the model that Orban is trying to emulate-but is failing in doing so-is that of Franz J. Strauss and Edmund Stoiber and the CSU in Bavaria. The party has been staunchly nationalist, Catholic and while Conservative hardly free market. Sadly, Hungary is not Bavaria, and Budapest will never be confused with 21st Century Munich.

Instead of the CSU,Orban would do a little better if he took after Ronald Reagan or even the CDU and Angela Merkel. Not perfect but a lot more rationale than either the CSU or FIDESZ.

Eva S. Balogh

Sandor:"On the one hand you should never forget Orban's totally flummoxed face and demeanor, as he was casting around for solution during the pre-runoff weeks of the election."

This is very true. Idiotic ideas about putting up Bod as prime minister. I think he loses his head after a defeat.

Bill

My apologies, I should have been more precise. Of course Reagan's (or, better said, the neo-conservatives, since neo-conservatism was refined with time and reached it's sublime peak in 2002-2003) and Orban's policies differed greatly, but I find their rhetorical style quite similar. The beauty of their style of rhetoric is that you can literally fill it with any content and "sell" the policies on emotional appeal alone - the same methods (and words, even) can be used to promote fascist policies, communist policies, corporatism, anarchism, or even democratic republicanism.

Eva S. Balogh

Bill: "My apologies, I should have been more precise. Of course Reagan's (or, better said, the neo-conservatives, since neo-conservatism was refined with time and reached it's sublime peak in 2002-2003) and Orban's policies differed greatly"

One wishes that Orbán would be like Reagan. Reagan talked but, luckily, didn't deliver. I'm afraid Orbán would deliver as he did between 1998 and 2002. Otherwise, I think your opponents are right: Orbán is really not a conservative but a right-wing socialist and that is not too promising.

kincs

Bill: “It seems to me that Fidesz has taken its cues from the American neo-conservatives”

Fidesz did not merely take its cue from the Americans; they used to go over to the US for training with Republican Party help in the 1990s. The tactic of not merely rejecting an accusation but accusing the other side of being far more guilty of the alleged wrongdoing – not mentioned by Anna Szilágyi (or at least not by Eva) – is one that they picked up from the Republicans.
Most of that training predates the rise to power of the neo-cons in the US. It seems to have included more basic matters like getting everyone consistently “on message”, something that the MSZP is still getting the hang of.
One cue they seemed to have taken from the American right is the creation of an echo chamber of sympathetic media outlets – TV networks, magazines and web-sites all reiterating the party line and excluding any objective discussion or op-posing viewpoint.

Julianna Gulden

Kincs -- I'm not entirely sure about Fidesz being trained by the Republicans in the 90's, but as a former employee of the Republican National Committee during the late 80's, I can tell you that the first Hungarian politicians to receive help from the GOP in terms of training materials were from SzDSz. Also, I recall that parts of SzDSz's early platform documents were lifted from the GOP's 1984 party platform -- specifically the business aspects.

Eva S. Balogh

Kincs: "Fidesz did not merely take its cue from the Americans; they used to go over to the US for training with Republican Party help in the 1990s. The tactic of not merely rejecting an accusation but accusing the other side of being far more guilty of the alleged wrongdoing – not mentioned by Anna Szilágyi (or at least not by Eva)"

Not mentioned by Anna Szilágyi.

Eva S. Balogh

Julianna Gulden: "I can tell you that the first Hungarian politicians to receive help from the GOP in terms of training materials were from SzDSz."

I knew that some of the Hungarian parties received help from their American counterparts, but I didn't know that SZDSZ went to the Republicans. Of course, it is possible that they asked help from both parties.

In any case, perhaps the current SZDSZ leaders should ask for help again. Big smiley.

Vándorló

Whilst "Élet és Irodalom" is one of the few rags that bothers to live up to the epithet journalism, the general tone and language of this piece is recursively referential. Meaning, overblown drama.

The language used by Fidesz is the language of opposition, intended to disturb, create unrest, uneasiness, doubt. Any party would engage in this.

What is more, Hungarians live in a daily maelstrom of fear, recrimination and caustic disbelief (most of it self generated) that raises the significance threshold barrier. There is no amount of caulking against the general level of misinformation, gossip and foul-play.

But no matter what, the most disturbing and misguided accusation of the piece is that this government has been frozen in action in the fear of the necromancy of Orbán's future reign of terror. That is a pathetic excuse for political and fiscal impotence.

What is more it fails to explain how under this government so much theft and mismanagement from Kóka and other cronies has been allowed to continue.

Further, it also fails to explain the obvious collusion of all parties in covering up thefts during Fidesz's last reign. How else is it that all legal cases of theft and misappropriation of funds, no matter how well founded, have gone unpunished? Without one person being held accountable. How is it Happy Kft got off scot free. Why is it that this government implicitly (and hence fairly explicitly) allowed the authorities to sit on a number of water tight cases until they all passed their legal limit for prosecution.

I don't buy any of this language nonsense. All parties have helped each other in gorging on the pie and making excuses for each others appalling greed.

Actions speak louder than words.

Eva S. Balogh

Vandorlo: "The language used by Fidesz is the language of opposition, intended to disturb, create unrest, uneasiness, doubt. Any party would engage in this."

I'm afraid, you are mistaken. This is no ordinary language of an opposition party.

Eva S. Balogh

Sundiszo: "Why do you not engage any of Vándorló's specific arguments/points? To simply state the opposite is completely silly."

I'm afraid that I don't have enough time to go into all the details. Moreover, I don't see the point.

Eva S. Balogh

Vandorlo: "Your response reminds me of Sackville West's observation that "There is no such thing as conversation, just intersecting monologues, that is all". Not responding would have been more appropriate and less rude."

No, my friend. If you claim that this is normal language from an opposition party then it's not my job to prove anything. It is your job to bring domestic and foreign examples to bolster your contention. If you find Republican politicians' calling Democrats "pukes" and "sick," or vica versa, then I will be satisfied.

Otherwise, rude or not, your text following your introductory sentence had nothing to do with the topic on hand.

Eva S. Balogh

To Vandorlo. This is a blog and not a discussing group. Blog is an internet diary. I answered some of the comments because I found them either useful or interesting. But I am not going to sit down with you arguing about the merit of Szilagyi's article or my reactions to it. If you don't like it, don't read it.

gomba

Excuse me, excuse me...Mrs/Missus Eva S. Balogh...

...what is this nonsense about not reading something if you don't like it? How is one to know the content of an article and agree or disagree with it if one does not read it?

Your thinking (and worldview) is flawed.

Think about it.

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