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« The Hungarian service by S.K. | Main | The Hungarian right's foreign policy offensive »

December 01, 2009

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Hank

The way this thing has been politicized is obscene. A friend of ours told how, at the school of her children, there is a clear distinction: kids of so-called left wing and liberal parents have been vaccinated, children of so-called right-wing parents have not, and that is the way people talk about it. It is sick and shows a true Balkan mentality. And it is Fidesz, again, who is to blame for politicizing this issue, which is totally irresponsible.

That having been said, I have never understood how it is possible that companies like Omnivest can operate without the real identity of its owners being known. Surely, full transparancy of ownership should be a prerequisite for getting government grants, winning government tenders and doing business with government institutions, certainly where public health is concerned, but also with media (who really owns Hir TV, Info radio etc.), energy, motorway building etc. But that seems to be not out of the ordinary in Hungary. As it is, one cannot but suspect that some shady business is going on.


Mario

Some Canadian provinces have stopped using a particular batch of the H1N1 flu vaccine after six people experienced severe allergic reactions, the country's health agency said on Monday.
The Public Health Agency of Canada and vaccine manufacturer GlaxoSmithKline Plc have asked the governments of Manitoba, British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Ontario and Prince Edward Island -- nearly half the country's 13 provinces and territories -- to stop using a batch of 172,000 doses.
Six allergic reactions from that size of a batch is a higher percentage than usual, said a spokeswoman for the Public Health Agency. Overall, the number of severe allergic reactions following H1N1 vaccinations is less than 1 per 100,000 doses, the norm for other vaccines.
All six people who experienced the allergic reactions have recovered, the spokeswoman said.

Manitoba received 63,000 doses of the vaccine batch and has only 930 left, a spokeswoman for the provincial health department said. Health officials have now placed all the remaining doses in storage.

Mario

The "mysterious III/III agent" is not mysterious = Dr. Kaizinger Zoltán.

Hank

Open your eyes indeed.

What I find in these articles is a lot of 'possible', 'unconfirmed' and 'suspected', but no solid scientific proof against any of these vaccins (the Hungarian one is different from the ones used in Sweden or Canada) which have all been tested thoroughly.
There are always - year in year out - and all over the world people dying of the flu (even of the normal seasonal flu). Also, people can be dying of many related and unrelated causes, so if every now and then someone dies after having had the vaccin, that doesn't say that the vaccin caused that. And yes, it is entirely possible that a certain batch of vaccins is contaminated somewhere because it hasn't been handled well. That, of course, doesn't make vaccins in itself dangerous.

Being afraid of vaccination is just hysteria. But if you don't want the vaccin, please yourself.


Vándorló

Courtesy of MedIQ blog (in Hungarian and generally excellent mediq.blog.hu/ ) there is plenty of convincing information with clear comparisons of risks etc... here: http://www.informationisbeautiful.net/2009/is-the-h1n1-swine-flu-vaccine-safe/

Part of this was used by the BBC as an illustration of good examples of clear visual illustrations of statistical and risk data.

This form of data is very hard for average people to understand. Even university educated people have real problems getting to grips with the very simplest of statistical ideas, so we can hardly expect it of the mass public. Particularly when journalist standards are so low.

I have seen very little in the way of information that an average person would be able to easily understand. Far too much is far too wordy. Far too much is far too opinion based, rather than fact based.

Like it or not, the government is responsible for effectively informing the public about risks and they are responsible to not counter-balancing the distorted ignorance and irresponsible scaremongering of Fidesz and Jobbik.

n.b. Mario is a creature that goes under the name of 'Law' on the politics.hu website. He and reality have a strained relationship, though I believe reality is trying its best to work out the problems, unfortunately Law is unwilling to take part in the therapy.

The Columbian

Dear Eva,

I find you conclusion that the public do not trust the vaccine because of the opposition quite amusing. With approval ratings as low as the incumbent government's, as evidenced by the by-elections about a week ago (the analysis of which I've yet to see on this blog) it's hard to imagine anyone trusting their word, and that of their cronies (Czeizel Endre, the quack geneticist?) even if there were no opposition politicians to be found in Hungary at all.
There is ample reason not to trust Omninvest, if for nothing more that it is a "Benedict Arnold company" as John Kerry woudl put it. It has received HUF 15bn in the past decade for development purposes, the results of which are mixed at best.A good, fact-based opinion column can be found here:
http://index.hu/velemeny/jegyzet/2009/12/01/a_nagy_omninvest-svindli/
About the vaccine: Omninvest currently has problems with meeting even basic GMP criteria, which can be overlooked at OGYI for political reasons, but has prevented this excellent vaccine from being even submitted for approval for other countries, such as Slovakia. This is mighty strange, considering the vaccine is absolutely safe, thus getting it FDA or EMEA approval shoudl be a breeze. And, az Eva kindly pointed out, there is a vast shortage of H1N1 vaccines in the US and all over the world. How odd Omninvest should not try to capitalize on this? I could tell you about "friends" who told me ( as this seems to be par for referencing sources on this blog) but two people have already "resigned" over leaked comments from OGYI.
the fact that the vaccine comes in packaging without an expiration date ( check it out- it should not be sold in Pharmacies under current regulations) further reinforces the point that something's amiss.
As for the statistics gurus, who like to tout numbers:
Working with numbers referenced by vandorlo, you are half as likely to get H1N1 than the seasonal flu, you are much less likely to be hospitalized, and much less likely to die. Interestingly, seasonal flu shots have not been hyped nearly as much as this wonderful product, though they prevent a condition far more likely to kill you.
Without sounding cynical, can anyone tell me why?
Finally, a personal thought, one that the scientifically educated commenters can maybe relate to:
Why is this blog called the Hungarian spectrum? It seems to only broadcast one single wavelength?

NWO

Despite the politics, many of the FIDESZ people have been reported to have gotten the vaccine, including Mikola.

In truth and regardless, the strain of H1N1 that has hit children in Bp (including my own) does not seem to be particularly virulent.

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The Hungarian case is a very harsh one.

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Politics of Hungary takes place in a framework of a parliamentary representative democratic republic, whereby the Prime Minister of Hungary is the head of government, and of a pluriform multi-party system. Executive power is exercised by the government. Legislative power is vested in both the government and parliament. The party system is dominated by the social democratic Hungarian Socialist Party (MSZP) and the conservative Fidesz.

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