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« Viktor Orbán's thoughts on the "Hungarian quality of existence" (III) | Main | József Debreczeni and the UD Zrt.: A strange Hungarian affair »

March 02, 2010

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Vándorló

@ESBalogh: Csurka is now claiming Jobbik are moving to the left and out of the kindness of his patriotic heart he's helping Fidesz to achieve its 2/3rds majority by giving them MIÉP's votes. http://www.magyarhirlap.hu/hirek.html?r_id=5&hir_id=190887
The truth is there are enormous divisions in the far right over issues such as: 1. their relationship with Russia 2. overt anti-Semitism 3. Christian vs pagan doctrines 4. 'propagande par le fait' anarchistic acts vs working within the system 5. responding to rogue elements such as Budaházy etc...

Thrasymachus

What utter hogwash. And yet it starts so well.

"Those who are more moderate claim that bad governance, Ferenc Gyurcsány's speech at Balatonőszöd, the introduction of an austerity program, and the outbreak of the international financial crisis gave rise to Jobbik."

Just insert the words, Gyurcsány's refusal to resign, and the police violence of October 2006: and I don't think anyone, with half a mind would disagree with you. ANYONE.

But you just CAN'T bring yourself to admit it, can you? The perfect MSZP can't have possibly had a hand in it, can they?

And so we are subject to the usual Liberal convolution, in which political movements rise into being as a product of "hate speech." And manufactured terrorists (against whom the state can still not mount a case after a year's incarceration). And blood on the streets in October 06 being a fantasy.

Understand this: too many of us were there. And saw it all with our own eyes. And yet apparently you live in a world where Morvai and her little clique can manufacture reams of TV footage and witness statements like some sort of devilish Mission Impossible squad.
http://www.hunsor.se/dosszie/crisis_in_hungary.pdf
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3SqQ1gJjss
@2:23 - 3:17
(Although I will admit that the Police were clearly overwhelmed. I mean the footage shows repeatedly that it takes at least eight of them to subdue each defenceless protester, with repeated blows.)

The point is for all Bajnai's carping about monsters, and everyone's hand-wringing about Jobbik being democratically beyond the pale. Because of what it says, or how it acts. You are bolting the stable door after the horse has bolted.

And that was Gyurcsány's refusal to go after Balatonőszöd.

Had he done so, like any respectable democratic politician in virtually any other EU nation would have done. There would be no Jobbik. C'est ça. And it was THIS act which set the precedent for contempt for democratic norms. If Jobbik is now reaping, what Fidesz sowed. It is because the MSZP and SZDSZ ploughed the land and spread fertilizer on it.

Deal with it.

Come and join us in the real world. And don't try and get away with historical revisionism, by accusing others of doing it. It's a weak old Komcsi tactic. And we just don't buy that stuff anymore.

(Oh hello Vándorló, well I must say, from where I sit I don't see much in the way of division in what you term the "far-Right" but if you say so. You're clearly an expert...

I just wanted to remark that I'm still waiting for that upload you promised re Morvai. Been waiting rather patiently for some time actually.)

Vándorló

@Thrasymachus: Apologies for not finding the video, but I gave it 10 minutes and then started something else. Strangely, I'm not impelled to waste any time on you or your tribe of miscreants.

When it turns up (things normally do when I'm on other tasks) I'll upload it. But, don't push your re-painting of reality too far. The video was on YouTube for 12 months and I linked to it 3 times on Politics.hu before it was removed.

Vándorló

@Thrasymachus: Here you go, knock yourself out with pride: http://✩.ws/ "HAZAÁRULÓ! (Morvai Krisztina)"
MEP, university lecturer, legal 'expert' in domestic violence and grown woman acting like uneducated trailer trash, Morvai in all her glory: A Morva(i) életbe!!

Who else would be seen giving the finger to her own law enforcement officers standing outside her own parliament - with absolutely no provocation or need. Disgusting.

Thrasymachus

I don't deny Morvai has a deep spiteful and visceral hatred for the Police.

As her own witness statement in the above dossier makes clear, she was witness to events on 23 October 2006, and had her young children present. I am sure she is scarred by the experience (of desperately trying to get her family to safety, of a panic, only a mother could have on seeing her young daughter choke on nerve gas) and that it is one of the main motivators of her passion.
(The likes of Dr B going on like magicians, as if to say, "Poof! You see? Nothing happened..." aids no-one's understanding of events or realities.)

I just wanted to see the incident alluded to. If you make outlandish statements you should be able to prove them. And being required to do so is a condition of your being believable; not stooping to "miscreants" as you, as ever so wittily, refer to me.

It is again charming that you think me a member of a tribe. When your intial post here speak of divisions being rife, in this supposed "tribe" of mine, there therefore being no such tribe after all, for you to waste your time with.

And yet you will insist on doing so for 80% of the time you spend on blogs that I witness. Curious that.

Thrasymachus

Thanks so much! You've made up my mind for me. That's DEFINITELY the kind of President we need.

Do you think the Slovaks would be introducing their patriot act - while Europe and the International Community are not breathing a word to stop it - if we had a President like that, instead of a wet rag like Sólyom?

Go on, try and pretend that we would.

(Or are you someone like Dr B, who thinks that if you're a Hungarian who just happens to be on the wrong side of the border you should culturally cleanse yourself, otherwise your host state is well within its rights to think about ethnically cleansing you?)

post-liberal

@Thrasymachus
"And that was Gyurcsány's refusal to go after Balatonőszöd.

Had he done so, like any respectable democratic politician in virtually any other EU nation would have done. There would be no Jobbik. C'est ça. And it was THIS act which set the precedent for contempt for democratic norms. If Jobbik is now reaping, what Fidesz sowed. It is because the MSZP and SZDSZ ploughed the land and spread fertilizer on it. "

You are ABSOLUTELY right!

Only Gyurcsany had such a huge ego to admit that he stole the election and then want to be congratulated for his honesty. He was caught with his hand IN the cookie jar. Any other democrat in any other nation would have resigned.

But events revealed that he wasn't really a democrat. He was just the KISZ Communist he had always been, ready to use the tools of democracy when they suited him. And it is HIS behaviour that made this OK in Hungarian public life, and led inevitably to Jobbik. The parties in parliament are complaining that Jobbik are using their own tactics against them.

For this blog writer to talk about the "hate speech" of the right is beyond irony. The Balatonoszod speech couldn't have been more clear because it was Gyurcsany's "hate speech" against his own people!

Morvai says so in this interview. (At 3:15) It is in English, and she is not foaming at the mouth or anything like that.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEnGLPu6C2s

whoever

"HAZAÁRULÓ! (Morvai Krisztina)"


Yes, she is acting worse here than a stereotypical "gypsy hag." Actually I've never seen a Roma woman do this.

David

Hungarian nationalism is really the politics of illusion, a trick with smoke and mirrors with no substance. It is rapidly acquiring the psychological features of all self-destructive identity politics: the exaggerated sense of victimhood, the scapegoating, the unrealistic romantic solutions.

This type of politics is a well worn path in Third World countries and failed states. Blame all your problems on foreigners/Jews/Americans or whatever, allow the corrupt elite to send all your tax money into their private Swiss bank accounts but continue to support them because they are "authentic" and because they stand up to the right imagined enemies.

If you want Hungary to become a Third World country, the extreme right is definitely the way to go.

Odin's lost eye

I recently received some correspondence from the World Council of Primates. In it they asked me not to refer to the ‘Rancid Right’ as ‘monkeys’ and both the old and new Madgyar Guarda as ‘baboons’. As the chief secretary of the WCP pointed out that even the ‘Geladas’ have to ‘draw the line’ somewhere.
Mr David you say (with a slight adjustment to the grammar) *** “This type of politics is a well worn path in Third World countries and failed states. Blame all your problems on foreigners/Jews/Americans or whatever, allow the corrupt elite to send all your tax money into their private Swiss bank accounts but continue to support them because they are "authentic" and because they stand up to the rights’ imagined enemies” ***
Oh how the lower grade politicians love to get their ‘fingers in the till’!. Unfortunately this country –like many others- has no ‘professional’ government executive establishment which is independent of the politicians and whose actions and duties are covered by various acts of parliament. In Hungary the ‘top wallahs’ are all political appointees and as such ‘owe’ the politicos ‘big time’.
If the ‘Rancid Right’ wants to emulate the old Communists and take over every thing.(for their own personal gain) This is supported by the various ‘editions’ of people like Mr Thrasymachus who live in comfort in a real democracy.
To quote from an 18th century travel writer, John Paget (who wrote during the time of Maria Theresa) . “The attitude of the ruling classes is the decisive factor in the decline of Hungary’s economy, culture and the country’s subsequent backwardness”. Little has changed since then and they do not learn either!

Anti-Odin

Odin didn't know the minimal info about the Hungarian History and culture.

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