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« The new Hungarian government's communication skills | Main | Credit rating agencies and Lajos Kósa »

September 14, 2010

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Paul Haynes

I know very little about natural gas, pipelines or LNG (although considerably more than I did an hour ago!), but on the surface this looks like a sensible move by Orbán (and even Eva sounds like she's struggling to get much anti-Fidesz capital out of this).

There are certainly good resons for thinking this project won't get off the ground. Natural gas liquification is very expensive (both in capital terms and in running costs), and it's hardly low-carbon compared to pipeline transportation, because of the energy needed to liquify the gas. But the biggest stumbling block is the amount of gas Azerbaijan is able to produce and sell. One of the main problems with the rival Nabucco pipeline is that the Russians appear to have bought up almost the entire likely annual Azerbaijan gas output.

But, even if this project (or the others Hungary has signed up to) fails to get off the ground, surely it's better for Hungary to cover all bets by making sure they are involved in all such projects?

Bearing in mind how vital natural gas is to Hungary and how Russia can behave over its supply (or not), were I the Hungarian PM, I would make very sure my country was involved in every project which might deliver lower risk/cost gas to my voters - whatever its real chances of success.

Eva S. Balogh

Paul Haynes: "There are certainly good resons for thinking this project won't get off the ground."

That's the trouble. I have the same feeling. The question is whether Orbán knows that or not.

Pásztor Szilárd

Eva: could you post your opinion on Fidesz's latest 8-point plan to help those with house loans? I'd be interested.

Paul Haynes

Szilárd - perhaps you could first help those of us who can't read this sort of thing in the original Hungarian by explaining exactly what Fidesz's 8 point plan is?

I ask this seriously, as I have no other way of finding such things out.

I have read the English translations of Orbán's speeches to parliament, so I have some idea of what Fidesz are hoping to do, but I would dearly love to know the detail.

At the moment, I am left very puzzled as to how a government whose economy is on the verge of collapse, and who claim they will both reduce taxes AND not cut expenditure, can possibly have the money to support thousands of foreign currency mortgages.

And I am equally puzzled as to why a government should put so much money and effort into supporting a relatively small number of mostly well-off people who made the 'unpatriotic' choice to bypass the Hungarian economy for purely selfish reasons (and by doing something that Fidesz intends to declare illegal) when there are millions of more deserving cases in Hungary.

The cynic in me ponders if this could be because most of these patriots are Fidesz voters.

Eva S. Balogh

Paul Haynes: "Szilárd - perhaps you could first help those of us who can't read this sort of thing in the original Hungarian by explaining exactly what Fidesz's 8 point plan is?"

Paul, I will give you the eight points in English tomorrow. A couple of the suggestions are so vague and shows such a lack of understanding of the whole banking system that the representatives of the banks don't even understand them. Others are so outlandish that they would completely bankrupt all the Hungarian banks. But I will give you the translations and then you can judge.

Pásztor Szilárd

@Paul: you are extremely wrong in each of your statements. How can one make so many "mistakes" in one post?
1. "they will both reduce taxes AND not cut expenditure": reducing taxes is a must to enable economic growth, there's just no other option. And they never said they wouldn't cut expenditure, the said they won't implement austerity measures. The two differ! Expenditures have already been cut this year without austerity measures.
2. "can possibly have the money to support thousands of foreign currency mortgages": this is no financial support, this is legal support, and as such, requires no money.
3. "relatively small number of mostly well-off people": huge number of people and NOT well-off (well-off ppl don't need loans)! The penknife just opens in my pocket when seeing such an ignorant yet cocky statement. You are talking nonsense about hundreds of thousands of families, all middle-class and working unless they lost their job in the crisis.
4. "made the 'unpatriotic' choice": they had NO choice since the "socialist" government halted the house loan support program and let the banks loose without any legal control, meaning there were practically no other loan types available than swiss franc.
5. "bypass the Hungarian economy": a loan in forint is no more patriotic than a loan in swiss franc. If it is swiss franc, the bank changes it to forint on its sell rate and gives the money to the client, then gets the monthly repay in forint and changes to swiss franc at its buying rate, winning on the margin and pushing all volatility risk onto the client. Check your facts on how loans work before writing such nonsense.

Pásztor Szilárd

@Eva: "the representatives of the banks don't even understand them"

Are you sure about that? *grin*
Of course everyone understands these points as they are perfectly clear. Bank representatives have no problem with understanding at all, they have problem with seeing their profit decrease again.
Why are you mixing these 2 up?

Paul Haynes

Christ, I hit a nerve there, Szilard!

But thanks for the link. Unfortunately, it doesn't give much more detail than I already 'know'. In fact it reads like a straight C&P from a typical Fidesz press release. I will await Eva's version tomorrow.

And, before you start, that's not because I am rabidly anti-Orbán and an MSzP supporter (I actually am quite impressed with VO and am most definitely NOT a MSzP supporter), but simply because I want to read both 'sides' before forming any sort of opinion (radical, I know, but that's just silly old me).

Gábor

Correct me if I'm wrong on this but raising the number of potential consumers with access to the same monopolistic supplier's product would surely not lower the prices asked, more probably raise it. At the moment Azerbaijan has a contract with Russia (the latter is ready to buy the whole production for geopolitical reasons and because they can sell it to their own customers), they are part of the Nabucco plan (leading to Italy and Austria) and now they has this very vague idea of AGRI. It is not a competition of the supplyers emerging, it is a competition of the buyers on a monopolistic (or oligopolistic) market, therefore what Orbán did and could achieve is to buy the very same natural gas for more. (Just like Azerbaijan would sell its reserves at an auction at Christie's or Sotheby's.) It certainly doesn't seem to be a great idea, although gave him the chance to pose as a statesman. (Well, Hungary's lack is the state of the budget, the country won't have billions of euros to build the system.) he real solution wopuld be a transition to other sources of energy and as it would also cost a lot wasting money on AGRI is a very bad idea.

whoever

'The penknife just opens in my pocket when seeing such an ignorant yet cocky statement.'

Is this some sort of phallic reference?

Pásztor Szilárd

@Paul: why do you wait for Eva's misinterpretation before forming your own opinion? I intentionally sent you a quick link to see for yourself.
Do you need a biased interpretation, from any wing, before forming an opinion?

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