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« A new opinion poll about the media law | Main | The Hungarian Socialist Party and Ferenc Gyurcsány »

January 30, 2011

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Paul

These articles about philosophers baffle me (I don't mean that pejoratively). I assume it's just a language and/or culture thing, but I simply can't imagine a new government in the UK (even an extreme right-wing bunch like we've got at the moment) attacking philosophers. Nor the public understanding why, or even knowing what philosophers are or do.

In fact, I will be honest and include myself in that group. I have no idea what philosophers 'do'. My image of them is a small group of mostly elderly men, living high up in some remote academic towers, discussing extremely involved philosophical points with each other - points that the rest of us would neither understand nor care about.

Perhaps 'philosopher' means something different in Hungarian or to Hungarians? Or it could just be me - I am, after all, just a working class boy (who actually spent a large part of today watching West Ham knock Nottingham Forest out of the FA Cup, not discussing philosophical points), so what do I know? Quite possibly very little.

But I remain totally baffled by this whole issue.

 Eva S. Balogh

Paul: "These articles about philosophers baffle me (I don't mean that pejoratively)."

Believe me, I'm baffled too.

Mutt Damon

In Planet Hungary their crime is that they time to time give interviews to newspapers. Now if your are smart and start saying things that make sense then your in trouble. This is the "logic". If, for some reasons, the dentists or the bakers would be interviewed and they would turn out to be smart, then FIDESZ mob would go after them too.

Kirsten

Probably it is as banal as Mutt writes. I was also thinking whether it could be due to hierarchical thinking of Austrian-Hungarian ("K.u.K.") type where professors are automatically considered an "authority". Could be a problem if they have already started to criticise the government. And yet another reason could be in Éva's sentence: "whose members had all sorts of privileges including monthly salaries." Perhaps this is only a detail in this story, but for me that sounds as if it were easier to denounce these people than making regular pay less of a privilege.

Minusio

@Paul: In a later post I would like to comment on the Hungarian Academy of Sciences in general, and some of its institutes in particular.

But just for now, I’d like to assure you that philosophers ‘do’ a lot for you and me. They study the fundamental issues of this world (although often they are just busy rephrasing and remodeling age-old problems) and although their works are mostly read only by fellow philosophers, their thinking goes into almost everything that touches our lives: politics, economics, law, science, journalism, everything. Even physics was once paraphrased as a ‘department of experimental philosophy’.

It’s a pity you don’t know any philosophers personally. You’d be surprised how faszinating it is to talk to them. 

Mutt Damon

This is interesting. This could be part of it. I admit the masses probably wouldn't look up to the bakers :-).

These people are dangerous when they have some sort of influence. Philosophers are considered the "wise" and the "schooled" the masses look up to. Either way this combined with political involvement (on the wrong side) will make them part of the "anti-Hungary" conspiracy. Similar thing would be if they started to go after famous performers. Watch out Brody ..

Mutt Damon

One thing still bugs me in this. That is paying for philosophical studies from tax payer money. Is this a Planet Hungary thing? How common is this in the luckier part of the world? I would email my congress person if this is the case here in US .. :-) This type of thing should be considered academical research. All this should be financed from grants the departments receive anyway.

Odin's lost eye

What is going on? I think the answer to that lies in the only model of Government that Fidesz knows. This model is the old Communist model of government.

What do I mean by Model of Government? It is the way in which things are to be done and the chain(s) of command. It is part of the general political mechanism that Fidesz wishes to use. One of the tenets it has is that all MUST promote the interests of Fidesz without expecting any reward or acknowledgement.

Part of this model requires that the party, Fidesz, is at the very centre of society and controls all aspects of behaviour and thought within that society. This will range from colour of toilet paper you will use to the music you will have in your C.D. collection. They will control everything and when I say everything I mean everything. Deviation from this model will be severely punished. How I do not know except you will be branded as an ‘Enemy of Hungary’ and ostracised.

They are starting with that part of the realms of academe which have no real use in Fidesz’s eyes (or rather in O.V.s eyes), and who are persons whose function in society is unknown to the population at large. So they are the thin edge of the wedge. Once these people are ‘under control’ others can be brought to heel.

Fidesz has the same idea as the Communists. This is ‘it is better to be a good party man than a good engineer, oilman etc’.

As an aside when OV went to Oxford, he read law for a short time at Pembroke collage. One of his fellow grads was, I think, a Hungarian Philosopher and Pembroke holds a sort of ‘Annual Jamboree and Junketing for Philosophers’ during the ‘Long Vac’. They as a friend of mine who was a ‘Night Porter’ there told me they (the Philosophers) could be ‘quite a hand full’.

GW

A parallel system of Universities and dedicated research institutes or academies is not unusual in Europe. In Germany, the Universities themselves have both teaching faculties and research-only institutes and scholars may belong to one, the other, or both. (E.g. Adorno, was appointed in the faculties of philosophy and sociology and simultaneously had a position at the Institute for Social Research.) In Germany, the primary network of research institutes is that of the Max-Planck-Gesellschaft, embracing institutes in all areas of the natural and social sciences and the humanities. (E.g. In addition to his University and Institute positions in Frankfurt, Habermas led a branch of the Planck in Starnberg.)

In the US, the American Academy of Arts and Sciences is a similar institution to the Hungarian, but one in which membership is largely honorary and in which elected members typically have their primary employment elsewhere. There are also pure-research institutions like the Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton, the Rockefeller University (which does grant grad degrees, however), the Hoover Institute, and many government-run institutes, for example those of NASA or the NIH or the Bureau of Standards, as well as that. In addition, all of the "think tanks" on public policy should be considered, including organizations close to particular political streams in Washington or the RAND Corporation which works on contract.

 Eva S. Balogh

Mutt Damon: "I would email my congress person if this is the case here in US .. :-) This type of thing should be considered academical research. All this should be financed from grants the departments receive anyway."

I don't know about philosophers but the Russian and East European Studies at Yale received about 100,000 a year from the government for research purposes and language teaching.

Kevin Moore

Still not a single word on why those more than suspicious contracts by the philosophers should not be supervised.

Still not a single word on why an attack should be of political grounds when it's the specific contracts awarding the philosophers' own family members that are challenged.

Still not a single word on how such topics like studying Lukács & Heidegger's works could be funded from tenders on technological research.

And soon comes our dear Paul, telling everyone how big of a troll I am, without trying to give any genuine answer whatsoever.

 Eva S. Balogh

To GW: believe me that the Hungarian system cannot be compared to anything else in the world. Most of the American research institutes are attached to universities and the staff is not very large. But take a look at the list of the research institutes of the Academy: http://mta.hu/cikkek/az-mta-kutatointezetei-103711

GW

Kevin Moore: Both Lukács and Heidegger wrote texts on technology which have been widely cited in subsequent reviewed literature are are now considered canonical parts of mainstream continental philosophy. See, for example, Heidegger's The Question Concerning Technology (pub. 1954; the essay has its own Wikipedia article) and Lukács's Technology and Social Relations (1966).

GDF

I recall that in Romania members of the Academy enjoyed similar privileges during the communist regime. Their salaries used to be around ten times the average, they were driven everywhere by their designated drivers etc.

Some of the members of the Academy were really exceptional talents in their fields, others, like Ceausecsu's wife, were rumored to have no high school education.

Kevin Moore

GW: you can't be serious.

Mutt Damon

@Kevin Knock it off. Either way those were legal contracts. Any wrong doing should be proven at the courts. Do you agree?

Your government should focus on regulations from now instead of revenge. I mean real laws, not just "we're the good guys, don't worry" type regulations, like the media law.

My $.02 is that this type of "research" should only be financed with academic grants. It's OK if it is tax money as long as there is credible direct oversight in the parliament.

Let's try to introduce law and order.

( Ahh, I'm so great :-) )

Kevin Moore

"Either way those were legal contracts. Any wrong doing should be proven at the courts. Do you agree?"

I completely agree. Too bad none of YOU agree on this!

How else could it happen that ALL of you label this as a political attack despite the charges state that:
1. some contracts were assessed by the same persons who were applying for money;
2. these contracts were completely off-topic and had nothing to do with the tender in question;
3. the philosophers contracted their own private small companies with the same task that should have been done within their scope of activities as employees.

How come that NONE of these charges are countered or even denied?

"Your government should focus on regulations from now instead of revenge."

So you want the government to overlook that these contracts were probably nothing more than thefts of public money? You call this "revenge?"

I WANT the government to supervise how public money was spent, this wast part of why I voted for them!
Why do you want them to skip this?

Currently 2 separate police investigations are underway. Aren't you happy that truth is to be revealed in the end? It doesn't look like that you are happy!

someone

Mutt Damon: My understanding is that the Hungarian and "western" systems are still very different, as most Hungarian Universities are public universities. So any grants they provide for research directly or via MTA would come out of the taxpayers pocket. Private universities that are common in the USA, and other western countries are managed by a group, fees are higher, but money is also coming from larger donations from the private sector and from corporations. Some money for research could come from government run institutions, when the research is for their use. The Hungarian private sectors and corporations does not have the same strength as their western equal.

What is philosophy good for? I do not know to many people who pick up a philosophy book, but philosophy is entwined in corporate culture, politics, psychology, even research biology and of course in religious studies. Everyone can answer to simple questions in every day life but philosophers try to find the logic between how intangible things work. THeir studies are used in establishing new "protocols", conduct research on other subjects, create new laws, and so forth.

Joseph Simon

Interestingly enough all of you raise the important question: what are many of these illustrious academic institutions good for?
The current financial crisis almost ruined the US, with huge global implications. Why do we have all those Business Schools at Harvard, MIT, economists with PhD's, etc. Has anyone sounded an alarm? No one saw the avalanche being built up that literally destroyed many lives. So much for those lofty academies.

 Eva S. Balogh

Kevin Moore, Perhaps you should read other sources beside Magyar Nemzet then you would know that those "charges" are simply not true.

Pete H.

JS, just because you didn't hear them predict it, doesn't mean they did not. Krugman, among others, predicted the crisis some 36 months before it happened. But, the press wasn't ready to report it and the government was not ready to act on it. You should do a little background work before you post such sweeping statements.

Kevin Moore

Eva: please have mercy on me and point me to those sources where I can get this vital information.
Thank you.

John G

Question: were only the"left wing" philosophers "dishonest" in their financial dealings, or did the "right wing" group of philosophers operated under the same financial arrangement as the others and are simply left out of the investigation ? Which then would make it very much a political.

Minusio

The title was: The Hungarian Academy and its institutes

I agree that the Hungarian two-tier academic system is an oddity in this particular organisational form. (It bears little semblance to the German research foundations such as Max Planck and Deutsche Forschungsgemeinschaft.) But given the imperfections of the universities, merging them with the Academy’s institutes would only add inefficiency to mediocracy.

On the face of it, the Hungarian Academy of Sciences (MTA) is financed by the taxpayer. And it is true that there exist a lot of fiefdoms with unmerited perks under its roof, such as chauffeured limousines, holiday homes, service personnel, etc. But this waste only goes for the unproductive, i.e. decorative, top echelons. And this is where you also find the political weight Eva mentioned.

Some of the institutes do produce “tangible scientific results”, although most of those seem to be in Hungarian only, which in turn reflects the general foreign-language incompetence in Hungary and constitutes a certain provinciality.

It is not generally known that the salaries of researchers (as of all government employees) after the change of the political system were so low that most people needed a second job to subsist. The salary hike by 50% in 2002 was supposed to make up for several years of inflation near 20%, but it didn’t. In addition, the institutes I know only survive by doing contract work, soliciting grants, in short; by looking largely for their own funding. As a consequence, the efficiency, equipment and well-being of the institutes vary greatly.

About 80% of the institutes do research in natural sciences and technical fields, only 20% are active in the social sciences and arts, including philosophy.

After 1996 it was possible to be employed by an institute and found one’s own little company. That opportunity was used extensively, but only those succeeded who had innovative ideas, had some language skills, were well networked and were able to land contract work from foreign governments and companies.

Another strange and not totally transparent element in the Hungarian academic system is the hierarchy of degrees. I know people who use the title of “Dr.” who wouldn’t have been awarded a B.A. in other countries, and certainly not an M.A. Even today, many doctoral candidates are known not to have a presentable command of their mother tongue. But they are called PhDs. What would be called a “habilitation” in continental Europe, in Hungary is a mysterious thing called “D.Sc.” Of those degrees there are only about 3000 in all of Hungary, not all of them deserving.


Postscriptum: József Pálinkás must have been the Fidesz minister of education to whom Wolf Lepenies referred when he asked for further support for the Collegium Budapest in 2000 and was told: “No way. You collaborated with my predecessor.” Now, after six countries spent about 40 million euros on renovating and running the Collegium, Pálinkás wants to requisition it for “his” Academy. He already knows his way.

Mutt Damon

@Kevin This is very similar (to me at least) to the case of the severance money issue and 98% retroactive tax. I presume nobody committed any crimes, they were just taking advantage of the system. You're trying to shoot the messenger. And it looks like nowadays it's open season on certain type of messengers - that's the revenge part.

They should stop this petty "I'll go after them" style witch-hunt and focus on regulations. This just shows how preoccupied they are with the wrong things.

I was just laughing my butt off seeing the new boss of the Duna TV selling "oxygenated water" (and high pressure thingy to create it at home) of his wife's company in a public TV program. Reportedly they were also selling it by the glass in the cafeteria. Kevin, what is this if not a FIDESZ guy taking advantage of the new times ..

Be generous. From now: Law and Order. Too much work? Doesn't pay?

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