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« Filtering the news in Hungary? | Main | Council of Europe: Debate on the functioning of democracy in Hungary »

January 25, 2011

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Ovidiu

"under siege from many quarters" only feeds the paranoia about the "Tel Aviv-New York-Brussels axis" which exists in right-wing circles in Hungary...if they happen to read your blog.

But in fact what we see is about the EU-values which are not negociable and merely a repetition of what happened to Austria after Jörg Haider and his coalition came to power.

It won't stop, once it has started it will just go on and on. I wonder what Orbán can actually do about it without risk losing support at home.

Paul

At the risk of repeating myself (again), all this is external 'pressure' (apart from Mancs, which I'm sure OV worries about a lot). None of it will amount to much, OV will ignore it or use it as proof of how much Hungary is under attack, and most Hungarians will remain largely, blissfully, unaware of it.

But, because I am sick of being such a prophet of doom (and because it's my névnap!), I thought I'd pass on a bit of good news. Personal and way off topic, but something happy for a change.

Our 5 year old daughter won her class talent competition, and she did it singing Hungarian songs! (Since you ask, they were Ha felmegyek a Budai nagy hegyre, Erdő, erdő, erdő, and Hej Jancsika.) She goes on to the school heat tomorrow.

The reason I mention all this is because of the intense feeling of pride I felt when our daughter won, not just because of who she was, but because she did it in Hungarian - probably the first Hungarian the people listening have ever heard - and dressed in traditional Hungarian dress.

I've been feeling so down about Hungary and my connections to it for the last few months, but this brought back my old feelings of pride in my adopted country. It reminded me of the days when I really looked forward to visits, when I talked to everyone about Hungary, when I hoped to be living there one day.

It's so terribly sad that one power hungry man and his ignorant minions have destroyed all this.

John G

Sorry Paul, it is not "one power hungry man and his ignorant minions have destroyed all this". Hungarian history, culture and society created an environment where such things can happen. Not to speak of a vile, venal political class, whatever their political stripe. 10,000 people demonstrating against the media law, 10,000 people signing affidavits that they signed over their pensions to the government under duress do not show that Fidesz is without popular support. It merely shows that there are still a few thinking people left in Hungary.

BTW Isten Éltessen! Paul. I presume it is not in Hungary your daughter won her laurels. Copngrats!

and to Kormos a Happy Rabbie Burns Day!

Eva S. Balogh

Ovidiu: ""under siege from many quarters" only feeds the paranoia about the "Tel Aviv-New York-Brussels axis" which exists in right-wing circles in Hungary."

Sure thing but what can we do about it? Believe me that those people will never change their minds. It doesn't really matter what we or others say.

Kirsten

OV seems to be in need of some clever move to calm the situation down a bit. Otherwise he spends his energy on defending Hungary against the protests from other countries (which seems to have surprised him). I hope this "window of opportunity" will be used before (from July onwards) he starts to concentrate more on the domestic arena again. The more liberal press should not change its style, he cannot send them all to jail like Viktor Khodorkovski.

Eva S. Balogh

Kirsten: "The more liberal press should not change its style, he cannot send them all to jail like Viktor Khodorkovski."

What I know about these people, they have no intention to change. A very brave bunch.

Minusio

Ovidiu: Your remark is historically wrong and politically wrong. Haider never managed to abolish democracy for all practical purposes. And from a philosophical point of view, I wouldn't even know where to pigeonhole you. Crypto-utilitarianism?

Kirsten

I am afraid I am the next victim of Orbanisation (maybe you are right, Paul, of his "genius"), seeing "Viktors" where there are none...

Paul

Our one hope of a reasonably quick resolution to the OV problem is the incompetence of his lieutenants. Typically for an insecure megalomaniac, he has surrounded himself with people who are not up to the job.

He can't run the whole show himself, and his seconds-in-command will screw it up, so hopefully the whole thing will collapse into squabbling, back stabbing and cock-ups.

But if that doesn't happen, and once July has passed, and the world's attention turns away from Hungary, then, yes, he CAN jail them all. And he CAN fine the newspapers and TV and radio stations out of existence. And he CAN gerrymander future elections so that any opposition doesn't stand a chance.

And no one outside will be that bothered, or be able to do anything much to stop it.

After that only economic and/or social collapse will stop him.

someone

THe problem (still) is that many Hungarians take the words of certain media and their trusteed party. If Fidesz or Jobbik say so, it must be true. If it is written in Magyar Hirlap or Magyar Nemzet then this is it. It is all Jewish and Communist conspiracy in the public eye. Everyone who criticizes must be part of the conspiracy. A good for step for Orban would be to totally and absolutely separate himself from the Jobbik, and the likes of Bayer. He will never do it, because if you follow his career it is not his interest. It will not serve him, he would be to worried that he would loose the vote and support of the right leaning party members. As Hungary turns more nationalistic (greatly because Orban himself), he needs to more and more shift toward to the right.

Kormos

It is 22:00 in my time, I just got home and I will finish a 3 ounce drink for your health John G.
So Skal (with a little circle on the top of the a)
...and thank you for your well wishes, all the same to you.
Egészségére/Egészségedre Sir!

Odin's Lost Eye

Someone – you write ** “As Hungary turns more nationalistic (greatly because Orban himself), he needs to more and more shift toward to the right.” **

I think and believe that as Paul describes it his minions make more and more ‘Co-ups’ he will become more and more autocratic. His decisions will be more and more desperate and draconian.

This will in turn set off more and more activity in the European Commission, which in turn will lead to more censures and actions in the European Court.

The Hungarian People, who I am afraid are in many ways very childlike and too trusting of authority, will be driven closer and closer to total isolation and given more and more to hate. There may be a point at which ‘The Mighty One’ (OV) will have to take action against ‘the enemies’ to divert attention from his failures. It cannot be military action against external enemies because the Hungarian army is only too well acquainted with NATO. He will have to turn on the ‘enemies within’ probably with more and more lethal force.

The only hope I think is that someone will emerge from deep within Fidesz and displace him. If this happens what will emerge may be worse than the present incumbent.

Why is it that only those who want prestige, profit and power for themselves enter Hungarian politics? I know that to be a party leader/minister cannot be a real ‘Mr Nice Guy’.

Happy Birthday Paul I will buy you a drink tonight but if you do not turn up i will have to drink it for you Cheers!

Kevin Moore

Oh yes we're at it again. It's now Habermas and co. to nose into something they know nothing about.

I never knew philosophers were untouchable because of their political stance. I never knew there were different laws for philosophers who are entitled to steal public money with lame fake contracts.

I never knew certain persons were eligible to steal because they were Jews. And if you ask them how things went, it's immediately an Anti-Semitic attack.

Odin's lost eye

Oh God Kevin has fallen for the 'Rabi Burns' gag! Kevin back to your cage

Kevin Moore

Blind Odin what about a genuine answer?

Minusio

Because I don't want to feed the trolls, I'd like to generally refer to the rule of law which includes a ban of prejudgement and 'in dubio pro reo". It also stipulates a lot of other things about the organisation and independence of the judiciary which have already been abolished by the Orbán regime or are on the way out. Soon the rule of law will be replaced by "rex lex".

Paul

"I never knew..."

Why stop at three, 'Kevin'?

Judging from your posts, there must be a wealth of things you "never knew".

Kevin Moore

Strangely enough, everyone quickly just shuts up when the specific charges against the "philosophers" come into play.

No idea on how to interpret this as a political attack? Right.

Budai invites the German philosophers, to show them the documents upon which he took his legal actions: http://www.magyarhirlap.hu/belfold/budai_meghivta_a_nemet_filozofusokat.html

I'm sure no answer will come, our excellent German philosophers are not interested in getting to know what they're talking about.

Paul

'Kevin' - we could start by trying to work out what you're talking about.

Kevin Moore

Paul: nice endeavour, what about you read my post? That could be a good first step.

Paul

'Kevin' - it's not the first step that's the problem, it's the next step - trying to make sense of it all.

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