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« The trial begins: Serial murders of Gypsies | Main | Why does Viktor Orbán need a new constitution? »

March 31, 2011

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Jano

If this is all you have against Tarlós's reign then I couldn't care less to be honest. These are all symbolic issues and as always with a little malice, one can always make fun of them. I think he is one of the better Fidesz politicians (Yes he has definitely been a Fidesz politician since 2006 there's no disagreement between us on this) and is definitely better than Demszky in the past years. He was fair with his predecessor, he is not reluctant to use advisers with whom he doesn't exactly share the same views. He is committed to the abolishment of the "small kingdoms" in Budapest, although I don't think he has the power to do so. Obviously he's in a war on this with e.g. Rogán. He is honest about the economic situation of the city and thinks in a realistic, pragmatic way (he's not a Matolcsyst for example, what a beautiful word). He inherited a huge financial disaster, we'll see what he can do with that.

Jano

Btw: "attractive Kálmán" Please speak only for yourself:)

Ron

István Tarlós when he was mayor of the 3rd district did a more than decent job in comparison to other districts mayors.

And he is not willing to follow the Fidesz doctrine about key positions at all costs. For example, he had the balls to say no when Fidesz wanted to remove all the directors from hospitals.

He may no be an intellectual, and this may be what Budapest need currently.

As to changing the names of various places and removing statues, that is not only a Jobbik thing, I certain that also Fidesz is behind this.

As to Demszky Gabor he should have resigned four years earlier. The last four years were a disaster. According to me he was listening to the wrong people.

P

the "intellectual" Demszky turned Budapest into a city of systemic corruption and fiscal insanity.

if Tarlos can engineer a solution to either of these two problems, then he will have my respect.

GW

Ultimately the mayor of Budapest has to be judged on his or her management skills, particularly in the delivery of expected services. For this reason, I advise waiting until Tarlos has gone through at least two winter-summer street repair cycles. Budapest sits on a particularly difficult piece of land for roadwork, with a third of the city on hillsides and the rest with streets or basements below the river level. Demszky used to joke that Budapest had two seasons: "winter and construction time" and this, combined with a road system dating to an era with a small fraction of the cars now on the roads and the continous cuts in real national support for the city's infrastructure over the past two decades makes Demszky's management of road repair actually something of a miracle. He was literally having to do much more every year with ever fewer resources. Having lived in a number of cities of comparable size, I would say that the streets of Budapest — from the outer ring in Pest to the free-for-all at all hours on the two lanes connecting the continuously growing outer second district to Moskva Ter — were never pretty, but they flowed, defeated ultimately only by the jams at late Christmas shopping.

wolfi

After reading about Demszky I had got the impression that he really was "one of the good guys", he was reelected several times if I'm correct - now I hear that at least his last years as mayor seem to have been a series of catastrophes.

Was he always like this or did he and/or his environment change in the last years?

Could anyone point me to some information there ?

Ron

I had the pleasure to meet Demszky Gabor in 1999/2000. At that time the situation was okay for him, as SZDSZ was still a major power in Budapest, but even then he expected to have a rouch time the next couple of years.

Reasons he gave was Fidesz becoming a more and more important party in Budapest, criticizing and obstructing everything, but not coming up with any solutions.

The ever decreasing budget from the state, and not having the tools to increase income.

He lost it the last couple of years, partly frustration and partly he was listening to the wrong advisors (some environmental groups for not having the round way of Budapest (North-West route)/cars in Budapest, etc., and partly he had no control over/information on the districts.

Jano

wolfi: Also, the Metro construction becoming an ever increasing hydra eating up a large portion of the budget without a reasonable explanation why did the initial costs grew to the 250% of what was originally planned was also a great defeat and humiliation for him, and he knows he has responsibilities with that. The legal background was a disaster as the Alstrom situation clearly indicates.

I think he's also responsible for letting Hagyó and the socialists loose (sure MSZP was the largest fraction, but he became an accomplice by staying silent). I simply refuse to believe that he didn't know what was going on.

Paul

Can someone explain the background to the comments about the Metro please? I assume this relates to the construction of the 4th line?

As someone who usually only ever sees Budapest as we fly over it, I know very little about all this and had assumed the 4th line was a good thing, if somewhat overdue.

Having once (never again!) driven through Budapest, I can only say that the more public transport there is, the better! In any other city, the long overdue expansion of the Metro would be something to be praised and eagerly awaited. Why is it different in Budapest?

And ditto for the M0. It's insane that cross country traffic still has to drive through the capital city. Finishing the M0 should have taken priority over all the other motorway construction.

And one last point, that just now occurs to me - compare and contrast the amount of monry spent on motorway construction in the last few years, compared to that spent on new railway lines, or even upgrading the existing ones.

You can now drive (legally) from Debrecen to Budapest in less time than the 'express' train takes. I can think of no other Western country where such a situation would be possible.

wolfi

Thanks, Paul, for the info!

Regarding trains, Hungary is an underdeveloped country!

It's almost unbelievable, but the train from Budapest to the western end of the Balaton takes more than three hours to Balatonszentgyörgy (the express train!) - and of course it goes on to Zagreb and Lubljana - so if you want to go to Keszthely ( the main city here), you have to change to the local train ...

When we get visitors from Budapest we usually get them at Balatonszentgyörgy - saves us/them another 30 minutes - and then it's off to our favourite restaurant: the Zöld Elefant in Zalaapáti ...

PS: Sorry, but this little piece of advertising had to be done ...

Paul

Wolfi - my favourite place in Hungary is Héviz, but we live in Debrecen and have no car. I leave you to imagine how long it takes to get to Héviz by train...

We had a 'holiday' (the weather was awful, the kids took it in turns to be ill, and the sewer blocked and had to be dug up!) in Zánka on the north Balaton coast last 'summer'. To our surprise, we discovered there was a direct train from Debrecen.

It was actually quite comfortable as it was old-fashioned compartment stock with extendable seats (nuch fun was had playing with these!) and we managed to get a compartment to ourselves (which was good, as on the return journey one child was still ill). But the train was SO slow and stopped just about everywhere - it took SEVEN hours from Zánka to Debrecen, the longest I have ever been on a train.

Again, I leave it to you to imagine a seven hour train journey with a sick 5 year old and a 1 year old baby.

We won't be going by train anywhere west of Budapest again in a hurry.

jano

Paul: Oh, don`t get me wrong the new metro is a long awaited and needed project, it just turned up to be a huge scandalous panama. The M0 is not being built because the enormous amount of legal complaint by locals and greens (madness)

Paul

I suppose it could be argued that the missing section of the M0 isn't absolutely necessary, as travelling from (say) the M1 to the M3, via the southern part of the 'ring' is still much easier and faster than trying to go through town.

But, if it stays like this for any length of time, the widening of the southern section will need to be completed - 2 lanes each way will never cope with the expected inter-motorway traffic.

It will be interesting to see if the M0 goes the same way as our M25 (London orbital motorway). It was opened in stages over many years, the southern bit being completed last. But, as soon as the motorway was completed, traffic levels rose way beyond forecasts, especially the southern section, which has several closely spaced connecting motorways. Traffic completely ground to a halt at busy times on this section.

To cope with this, sections of the motorway were upgraded to 4 lanes (8 lanes in all), and eventually most of the route ended up as 4 lanes (in some places the hard shoulder is used as an extra lane). But even this has proved inadequate and the busiest sections are now being widened to 5 lanes - even 6 in sections containing junctions.

In a congested and heavily built up area like London and the South-East, motorway widening is very expensive, as so many bridges, junctions, etc have to be replaced. It also causes a great deal of disruption to the local area.

Hungary doesn't have anything like the volume of internal traffic that the UK has, but the UK doesn't have the through traffic that Hungary has, or (more importantly) will have.

One thing our experience of motorway building has shown is that motorways generate traffic. They are built on the assumption that they will take traffic away from existing roads, but no one ever seems to take into account the extra traffic that is generated by the simple existance of a road that didn't used to be there. The end result is that capacity predictions are often way too optimistic, and, in no time at all, the new road is jammed solid.

Exactly this happened with the southern section of the M25. When it was built it was seen as merely a connecting road between the motorways entering London, allowing motorway-motorway traffic to bypass the city.

What planners failed to realise was that the M25 wasn't a replacement road, it was an entirely new one, providing an east-west connection for the south of London that hadn't been there before. The result was about twice the traffic that had been expected.

I suspect something similar will happen in Hungary, but it will be trans-Hungarian traffic that will be the problem, and this won't really start building up until Hungarian motorways are properly connected to the those of the surrounding countries.

But, once those connections (and the new motorways in the other countries) are built, the M0 (even at three lanes) and those old 2 lane sections on the M1, M3, etc, will be struggling to cope.

Hungary will then have to hope that the EU will see this as a 'European' problem and be prepared to stump up the cash needed for some very expensive road works.

NWO

Eva-

I have to agree. If that is the best you can do on Tarlos, you better wait to make your case. For a guy who you feel is bending over backward to appease Jobbik, he made an interesting choice this week of visiting Israel and being hosted by Chabad.

Regardless, Demszky was a disgrace. The fact that at one time he was a dissident does not excuse his incompetent reign over the city. Anymore than it does for Orban who once upon a time was also a vocal, your leader opposing the old regime.

Corruption and misplaced priorities have condemned Budapest, a city that was at one time felt well more advanced than its CEE rivals and has like the ocuntry at large has now become just shoddy.

 Eva S. Balogh

Jano: "Paul: Oh, don`t get me wrong the new metro is a long awaited and needed project, it just turned up to be a huge scandalous panama."

I'm sure that there was the usual corruption here and there but the thing is that all these metro projects cost a lot and usually drag on.

I might add here that as far as Tarlós is concerned the rosy picture someone pained of him as mayor of the third district I think is biased. According to a goodly number of people who lived there claimed that he didn't do much there.

As for his amiable nature (he will work with others) just wait. Even he wanted to do it his boss will not allow it.

Rigó Jancsi

Wasn't there talk about another renaming project, Lágymányosi híd to become Szent László híd? This changing of names and symbols is very annoying and in the end not cheap, either. Zugló just got new welcome and goodbye signs on M3 and other main roads, now including the greetings in old Székely-runes. Tarlós may introduce a Michael Jackson tér if it pleases him, as long as he manages to get the city moving up again. But somehow the image comes over that he's mainly occupied with this symbolism. What about the important things in the city?

Jano

"I'm sure that there was the usual corruption..."

Oh, so it's normal and acceptable, who gives a damn...

"all these metro projects cost a lot and usually drag on"

Interesting, other countries can solve this somehow. Demszky promised in every single election that the metro would be done by the end of the particular term. It was his symbolic project, so the failure symbolizes his failure.

"According to a goodly number of people who lived there claimed that he didn't do much there."

And according to a goodly number of other people who lived there he did a great job. This is true for every politician.

"As for his amiable nature (he will work with others) just wait. Even he wanted to do it his boss will not allow it."

Surprise, he already did it.

Rigó Jancsi: "What about the important things in the city?" The most important issues now are not very spectacular and mostly of financial nature. Also unfortunately, a lot depends on the government which doesn't exactly seem friendly seeing that Rogán and other Fidesz top guys are trying to screw with Tarlós.

ManOwaR

In WW II there was 45000 romanian soldiers wich who died for Hungary eliberation and 10000 of these soldiers died for Budapest! I think i said all with these....Don't let some animals to broke relashionships between Romania and Hungary.

 Eva S. Balogh

ManOwaR: In WW II there was 45000 romanian soldiers wich who died for Hungary eliberation and 10000 of these soldiers died for Budapest! I think i said all with these....Don't let some animals to broke relashionships between Romania and Hungary."

Since I wrote this piece Tarlós who is a first-rate idiot in my opinion changed the flag of Budapest. He didn't like it. That's all. This is how things go in Hungary nowadays. It reminded him of the Romanian flag and whether it is a historic flag or not doesn't seem to matter. Apparently a heraldic atrocity was accepted by the mayor: white background with red, white and green border, coat of arms in the middle of the flag. Apparently according to Hungarian heraldic tradition this type of design is for military use only.

Paul

Well, I hope Kósa doesn't get any ideas - the Debrecen flag is remarkably similar to the Ukranian one!

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