An interview with Jerrold Post in Budapest

Jerrold Post is a psychiatrist whose expertise is "political psychology." He is a graduate of Yale College and the Yale Medical School. Eventually he spent twenty-one years with the CIA where he founded and directed the Center for the Analysis of Personality and Political Behavior. Members of the Center analyzed foreign leaders and provided the president and other senior officials with psychological profiles so they could prepare for summit meetings and other high level negotiations. After his work at the CIA he moved on to George Washington University where he is professor of psychology and international affairs and director of the Political Psychology Program. He has published widely on psychological evaluations of political leaders, the psychology of political behavior, and the mind of the terrorist.

Péter Zentai of HVG had a fascinating interview with Jerrold Post a couple of days ago. The Hungarian journalist wanted to know whether there is a general portrait of dictators that is independent of time and space.

Post answered in the affirmative. "The psyche of all dictators, terrorist leaders, mafia chiefs has four essential components. The first is a messianic belief in their own destiny. The second is a type of paranoia. The dictator-types blame others for their smallest failures and are constantly trying to find or create enemies. The third is a limited conscience and hence a lack of inhibition that often originates in problems that weren't handled in childhood. And fourth is an uncanny ability to influence and possess the mind and soul of people in their closest circle."

When Zentai inquired about the intelligence level of these dictator-types, Post's answer was that there are some who are clever or intelligent and some who are not, but "almost all of them are half-educated." All dictators believe that their pronouncements are terribly important, while listening to them from the outside one can see the inner contradictions and outright stupidities. Their penchant for creating enemies can also be found in their public speeches where at the center of their ire is their or their country's enemies. Their attitude toward "these enemies" becomes obvious not only in words but also in gestures. For example, they often make their visitors wait or they arrive late for an important meeting only to show who is boss.

At this point the interview moved on to the close circle of political "associates." According to Post the dictator-type is a psychopath and a neurotic, but he is at the same time a talented psychologist who allows only those whom he deems to be the kind of person who can be totally influenced and ruled by him to get close to him. Within this circle the dictator-type constantly rewards and punishes. One never knows where he/she stands. At any time close political allies can be dropped. Post calls this "a psycho-horror show" which results in the dictator's associates constantly trying to imitate the boss. They lose their own personalities and become mere clones of the dictator. They try to imitate his mannerisms, for example. Eventually the teachings of the leader seep down further and further in the society at large with the help of a propaganda machine that is operated by those who can most easily be blackmailed or influenced. Or who have the weakest spines.

At this point the reporter wanted to learn more about these dictator-types in a democracy. Post has studied the psyches of Saddam, Kadhafi, and Milosevič, but what is the situation of the dictator-type in a democratic society? Post's answer was that democracies simply don't know what to do with these people. Their opportunities are restricted to certain segments of business life or the underground. In a well functioning democracy checks and balances prevent the formation of a dictatorship.

When Zentai objected and brought up the examples of Chavez's Venezuela or Lukasenko's Belarus, Post's answer was that in these countries there is no "demand for real and functioning democracy." These countries don't have a democratic tradition and a civic society with a well developed media.

Finally, Post pointed to the changes that are taking place in the Arab world. He optimistically announced that in the future dictatorships will have a decreasing chance of survival. Especially in a globalized world where individual countries' total independence in internal affairs is diminishing. In his opinion the international community can use more and more instruments to foil the ambitions of present and future dictators.

But what if the system of checks and balances is legally weakened? What will happen then to the would-be dictator in a democracy? 

 

 

 

Comments

[Gretchen]

Sorry--did 'Post' get exchanged for 'Pond' in the 5th paragraph?

[Eva S. Balogh]

Gretchen: "Sorry--did 'Post' get exchanged for 'Pond' in the 5th paragraph?"

Very possible! Thank you. Will get fixed.

[hu-hoz]

1. The only tool a dictator needs, is a GESTAPO, CHEKA or similar.
2. The stupid Hungarian police force is no match to the Orban dictatorship.

[Jano]

Yes, these criteria perfectly fit our two self appointed saviors on the market right now...

[Paul]

"two"??

[Mutt Damon]

Well, the question is this: are we going to blame the legally weakened checks and balances ("balsors akit régen tép") or our demand for real and functioning democracy is the same as in Belarus.

Fascinating article. It sends chills down on you spine.

[Jano]

Paul: Guess and tell me which criteria doesn't apply to the other one.

[peter litvanyi]

Dear Eva,
it is so nice to see that you are also deviating from the subject at times.
Thus I am asking: where does George W. Bush or our present sorry state of the union fits in this amazing interview?
Victor Orban is not operating in vacuum and you know that perfectly well.
Perhaps he is just a bit more of a moron than the rest of his fellow .....what should I call them? Friends???
Is he/ his party really worse than the current situation in Michigan? Wisconsin? Or many other states?
A bit of information. "Fanta" was a Cola product and they made good profit on it. It was very popular in Europe and mostly manufactured in Germany. Post Adolf they had to do a publicity stunt; thus it became Fanta without mentioning the Cola part/ interest. Between Pearl Harbour and 45 it actually was a nazi /nationalized/ entity. Sued back later.
It's actually not so bad if you chill it in the fridge a bit. Enjoy.
Do you really want to broaden the scope of your site? I didn't think so.
Sincerely:
Peter

[GDF]

Is something wrong with me that I don't understand at all the comment of "peter litvanyi"?

What has W to do with this topic?

Comparing VO or FIDESZ with Michigan reminds me the old - and stupid - joke: What's the diference between a crocodile? It's greener than long...

And then Fanta?? (By the way Cola is a generic term - it could even be Pepsi, Fanta was invented by Coca Cola's German subsidiary in 1941...)

[Odin's lost eye]

Mr Peter Litvanyi
Peter you write * “Victor Orban is not operating in vacuum and you know that perfectly well. Perhaps he is just a bit more of a moron than the rest of his fellow. What should I call them? Friends???” *.

Yes I will agree with you, but as our good hostess writes about Mr Post’s comments on a dictator’s henchmen “* “a talented psychologist who allows only those whom he deems to be the kind of person who can be totally influenced and ruled by him to get close to him. Within this circle the dictator-type constantly rewards and punishes. One never knows where he/she stands. At any time close political allies can be dropped. Post calls this "a psycho-horror show" which results in the dictator's associates constantly trying to imitate the boss. They lose their own personalities and become mere clones of the dictator.” * I cannot add any other comment to that.

However his ‘Mightiness’ (O.V.) does not however have a completely free hand. He is trammel by treaties which like Hitler regards as ‘mere scraps of paper’. One of these treaties can literal freeze him and his country to death. He is watched by them in ways he does not understand. He and his cronies take the ‘diplomatic niceties’ as weakness.

His armed forces have a long tradition of not opening fire on their own folk and have now become so inter mixed with NATO troops that many of them regard ‘Tommy’, ‘Fritzs’, ‘Jean-Jaques’ as their buddies. Many Hungarian soldiers I know have learned English as they say to stop the Germans killing them.

His Mightiness has verbally declared war on one of the ‘watchers’. He has sent the other home (the IMF) with a flea in its ear.

His declaration is that “He will free Hungary from the ‘Occupation by the European Union’” (a translation, I understand, of His words). I have wandered about this land a bit and the only two foreign soldiers I have seen was in 2003 and they were Finns.

His problems are that he does not have the resources and skills available to Mussolini nor the industrial might of Germany available to Hitler.

His big problem he knows from reacent happenings in Serbia - any sign of real Nastiness or a hint of ethnic cleansing and Hungary will find its self back in the late stone age as did Serbia! One night ALL the lights went out it took some ‘ole mates of mine’ nearly 3 months to put them back on.

[Paul]

Jano, you have lost me. I assume one of them is OV, the only other candidate I can think of would be one of the top Fidesz circle, but they are mostly noteable only for their lack of ability (dictators are always careful not to have potential usurpers in their closest circles).

Perhaps you mean our own dear Debreceni Mayor, I can confirm from personal experience that he fits the above profile quite well. But he really doesn't have the key qualities OV has - if OV fell under the proverbial tram, and he took over, Fidesz would fall apart.

[Kirsten]

Mutt: "our demand for real and functioning democracy is the same as in Belarus."

...as in Belarus I cannot say but I think that you are right that the demand for a functioning democracy seems rather low. But you and the other contributors have already written some points that said the same only in other words: people long for the good times under Kadar (no democracy needed), they do not want to get involved in politics because it is dirty business, they do not want to demonstrate because they are "disillusioned", politicians are all "crooks", the problem are idegenszivü Hungarians etc. - this all means that the drive for democracy is a bit weak. There does not seem to be much interest in finding out "how to" (do it, change it, improve it etc.). But before we all get "disillusioned" and to confirm that Bush jr. probably was not the most compelling example to follow, what the US certainly can teach the world is how a political system can look like that allows systematically to survive even crooks in the highest positions.

[someone]

GDF: "Is something wrong with me that I don't understand at all the comment of "peter litvanyi"?" No. it makes two of us. I do not get his point either.

[Odin's lost eye]

What Peter Litvanyi is talking about is not only His Mightiness (Victor Orban) but the other little toad another ‘dictator in waiting’ Garbor Vona.

[jobs online]

A bit of information. "Fanta" was a Cola product and they made good profit on it. It was very popular in Europe and mostly manufactured in Germany. our demand for real and functioning democracy is the same as in Belarus.

[custom essays]

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