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« Miklós Horthy: It is time to set things straight (I) | Main | Fears of Hungary's neighbors »

May 29, 2011

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MAGYAResNEMvak

Please add an analysis of the Hungarian Church leaders.

While 1000s of parish priests are decent people, the leaders are different. Political beasts, under the yoke of an ultra-conservative Vatican.

Without the modernization of the Churches, Hungarians can not be free.

David

"In this particular picture four well dressed young men and women were standing, rackets in hand, and next to them were three ball chasers. All three boys were barefoot. So much for the good old days under the great statesman (sic) Miklós Horthy."

Everyone who longs for the good old days imagines himself as a tennis player, not a ball chaser....

David

Presumably it was Horthy's government which signed the Treaty of Trianon. Why do the Hungarian right not hold this against him? Did the Jews make him do it, or something?

Odin's lost eye

During the ‘Horthy period’ Hungary was known as the ‘Land of Two Million Beggars’. This is what Fidesz is trying to re-create, a land in which the privileged few lord it over the rest of the population. These people had no social conscience at all.

The ‘elite doctrine’ will be all the population will know and any opposition will be ruthlessly suppressed.

Hum-Ho! Sounds familiar

peter litvanyi

Dear Eva:
" I would like to add another consideration: it was Tito who demanded Horthy's release": the article is not in front of me but I think Mr. Sebok /?/ also brought up that particular aspect of the riddle. I think "Jim" gave a link to the actual article previously. I mostly agree with your writing: Mr. Horthy remained slimy/ slippery enough to deny a clear case and to the very end. Not for a talented prosecutor though; they however never got a chance and that's where the HVG reference comes into the picture. A "Hero" of anyone? A ridiculous idea, of course. A poor, pathetic, uneducated and perhaps conflicted/bumbling pocket "fuhrer" who /by luck and cunning instinct/ evaded justice coming his way? Is it what you are proposing as a professional historian? Yes, let's remember him your way: I take it; it takes a bit of family forgiving from my part to take that.
Dear David:
I agree. Points well made. Thanks.
Peter Litvanyi

peter litvanyi

Dear "Odin's Lost":
Your four consecutive posts made me more than curious about you. Thank you for them.
Two things to refer to here are: "A gyertyak csonking egnek" and Geza "bacsi". I read his book so many times.
May I ask your rank, specialization and perhaps your red cross# here? This is all I can ask you by law, right?

Litvanyi Peter
a Magyar Nepkoztarsasag tartalekos hadnagya /mint apam is volt/
dogcedula #:fogalmam sincs
onjaro tuzerseg
alapkikepzes: Lenti
tartalekos tisztkepzo: Szabadszallas
csapatszolgallat: Gyongyos

peter litvanyi
litvanyi@q.com

Odin's lost eye

Peter Litvanyi No the Geneva Convention only allows you to ask Nme Rank and serial Number (if your service has one). If your rank is a ‘rating’ then that is not allowed.

No now I am a Professional Civilian and as such I outrank all military, be they Admiral of the Fleet, Field Marshal, or Marshal of the Royal Air Force (except the Lord High Admiral herself.)
No more now as I have to feed the Cats and the Dogs. Appart curiosity is good for you!

Thomas

David:Presumably it was Horthy's government which signed the Treaty of Trianon. Why do the Hungarian right not hold this against him? Did the Jews make him do it, or something?

No, It was the government of Mihaly Karolyi that signed the treaty. And yes he was and is called a Jew by many for this.

Kirsten

This I can help you solve. Horthy enters Budapest on a white horse in November 1919. The Treaty is signed in 1920. And this is a full quotation from "The peace conference and their aftermath: Karolyi and Bethlen": "Supported by Bethlen, Teleki, Csaky and all the senior members of his delegation, Apponyi recommended to his government that the treaty should be signed. This recommendation was accepted by the cabinet... The act of signature was entrusted to two men who, lacking further political ambition, were willing to accept the consequent stigma: the Minister for Public Welfare, Agoston Benard, and a career diplomat, Alfred Drasche-Lazar."

Kirsten

Horthy at the time of the signature seems to have been already "acting head of state". Prime minister was Sándor Simonyi-Semadam. But is it really true that Karolyi is linked with the signing and considered Jewish because of it...?

 Eva S. Balogh

David: "No, It was the government of Mihaly Karolyi that signed the treaty. And yes he was and is called a Jew by many for this."

Back to school, I'm afraid. The treaty was signed on June 4, 1920. Károlyi resigned on March 21, 1919.

And by the way, who calls Károlyi a Jew? You?

David

Eva, you're quoting Thomas, not me.

Jim

(Dear Péter: you don't have to put my name in quotes. It's real.)

thomas

yes, I was totally wrong sorry, Karolyi did not sign it. I guess i should check my facts first.

kincs

The wacky right in Hungary blames Károlyi for Trianon. I don't know what tortured logic lise behind this.
They - Kövér included - want to remove the rather evocative statue of Károlyi that stands near Parliament.
Later this month, Orbán will unveil a statue (elsewhere) of WWI prime minister István Tisza. That's the kind of small-minded mediocrity he looks up to.

someone

kincs: "Later this month, Orbán will unveil a statue (elsewhere) of WWI prime minister István Tisza. " Well, he cannot unveil a statue on himself, jut yet, but I am sure that is at work already. I completely see some parallel between Tisza and Orban, and not the good ones.

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