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« Hungarian state's stake in MOL (Hungarian Oil and Gas Company) | Main | Corruption in Hungary is on the rise »

May 26, 2011

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someone

Eva, I just loved your post! I love what Alfoldi had to say. He said what we would love to say sometimes to these close minded bigots! I am so happy that so many people stood up for him, and even people who are Fidesz supporters were able to overcome their political views, and stand up for what is right. THe Hungarian Theatrical Association also wrote an open letter in support.

Ivan

"You have disgraced yourselves again," Yeats told the rioters in the National Theatre of Ireland, the Abbey Theatre, when they rose up against O'Casey for questioning the required 'blood sacrifice' of nationalists, and rioted.

Alfoldi has proved to be the great survivor of the last two years of slander and witchhunt. Thus far. But he needs more powers that be to face the baying Jobbik (culture)vultures and to tell them that they have indeed disgraced themselves again.

latefor

Does art determine the development of society or does society determine art?
In Hungary's case art is indeed the reflection of the feelings and behavior of SOME individuals, ignoring the needs and desires of others.
In my humble view, with all due respect, art should be inspirational, NOT SHOCKING (or you might call it challenging).
I guess, in the name of art and democracy one can get away with almost anything.(Not to mention the hard fact that sex sells!)

someone

latefor: Have you seen any of Alfoldi's directorial efforts? Art can be inspirational when it is shocking. I do not see why not. Take a look on a Bruegel painting. How about almost any painting about the crucifixion?
Sex? Of course. How about classical cinema, 1933 Baby Face with Barbara Stanwyck, 1933 Ecstasy (Czech), King Kong 1933, Schindler's List 1993, From Here to Eternity, Cabaret, Last Tango in Paris, Ben-Hur, etc.
Lets combine sex and shock, Poussin painting from the 17 Century with a masturbating naked woman, Venus Spied On by Satyrs.
Lock up the museums and turn off the TV because the shock and sex lurking at us all over in the name of art.

BudapestISalive

Budapest report: I can not find any support for the fidesz. Only its narrow clique is playing the Gadaffi game. Sticking to power, hoarding, plundering, and dying a public death.

Hugary will survive this set of clowns, and will continue bleeding, and laughing at the same time.

Long live beautiful Hungary.

latefor

"someone"
Somehow I was sure that you will refer to Poussin....ha..ha..ha..
You say"lets combine sex and shock" and I say: lets combine LOVE and PASSION and ROMANCE!
Hallelujah!
Re:Alfoldi
You argue that he has not done anything truly shocking which hasn't been done before.
True, I agree. BUT where are we going from here???? There is nowhere else to go in my view....may be walking around naked on the streets and doing it in the alley while some pervert watching in the name of art....well, you must say that this would be original.

 Eva S. Balogh

latefor to someone: "You argue that he has not done anything truly shocking which hasn't been done before. True, I agree. BUT where are we going from here????"

Straight to hell! (Big smiley)

Johnny Boy

This article is actually about the extreme left and artistic taste.

latefor

Dearest Eva,
I prefer heaven!!!(but not just yet, please) I still have a lot of loving to do!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Ha...ha...ha...ha

Lutra lutra

This article is another manifestation of the extremes between Bunkósztán and a liberal Hungary, with its head and heart very much in the European vanguard, that have been played out for 150 years at least, and which cross (or used to cross anyway) traditional party lines.

As my dear old dad used to tell me, if you don't like something then turn it off, do something else or don't do it again, and stop complaining already.

Mutt Damon

I like his smile. He reminds me on Sean Bean: http://www.seanbeanpix.de Very good looking fellow.

Those wingnuts if they want good oral sex for the rest of their lives perhaps should not come to Virginia. Oral sex is a felony here. Not a good place to expand your carnal knowledge either. Fornication is also a misdemeanor.

It will be a very sad day when the Nemzeti will only show plays that can be shown to a 12 year old. How about the Radio City Christmas Spectacular? Wait, aren't the Rockettes too sexy?


someone

Latefor: "[to someone] You say"lets combine sex and shock" and I say: lets combine LOVE and PASSION and ROMANCE!"
Yes, I agree. I never denied the right for Casablanca or Titanic (although there is a bare breast). I would never go to see a horror movie or allow my kids to watch a horror movie. I do not believe in God but took my kids to the church and to the synagogue, I signed up my kids for Church Camp, because the people who work there could answer to their questions better then I could (even though I have read the bible twice). I do not like rap music and find the words awful but if it comes up on the radio, I do not run to change the channel and I do explain to my kids that those words are not acceptable in our life. I did us the f.. word once, and I apologized to my kids, and they were laughing as they found it out of character. My older one was in a play (fantastic play for older teens by the way) where there were some "sticky" subjects, and I sat down with my daughter and we talked about it, and then that was it. My kids now what is the difference between gays and straights, and let me tell you I would not take my nine years old to see The Tragedy of Man but I would love my older one to see it with simulated sex if needs to be. Alfoldi did not write history, nor he wrote the play, he just took a literally approach to the text versus "politically" or "religiously" correct approach. (Of course my younger one does not know the exact way how sex being done, but my older does know.)
Many-many art (music, painting, etc.) were misunderstood or dismissed in its time. I am not the judge of what others should like or not, and I am not sure why anyone thinks they can be the judge. People vote with their legs or with their money.

latefor

"someone"
"Alfoldi did not write history, nor he wrote the play, he just took a literally approach to the text versus "politically" or "religiously" correct approach. "
Somehow I just can't see how his artistic approach will benefit society in general...and you can't even say that he can be "misunderstood"...ha...ha..ha.
I am curios, what was the average age group of the audience, 20-25 or the 65+ ?? (The young and impressionable and the "nothing shocks me anymore" group)

"Men lives and moves in what he sees, but he only sees what he wants to see."
/Paul Valery/

Jano

This is a weird feeling. I still think that Alföldi's innovative art would be more suitable for a smaller alternative theater (like Bárka) and I also think that sometimes his sexual provocativeness is contrived and meaningless (öncélú?).ű

I'm also among those who think lending the Nemzeti for the Romanian celebration was kind of tasteless, I don't think the US celebrates the Mexican-US war in the national theater of Mexico City.

On the other hand making the Roman scene outrageously shocking is totally appropriate as it is the point of the whole thing. It is intended to depict a morally deprived society and if it's not repulsive that means that the director did a bad job.

Also, the journalist of N1 asked a provocative question while not even having seen the play means that she did not even do her homework. Of course Alföldi as a director is a public figure and should have controlled herself, but I can hardly see this whole incident as his fault.

latefor

"Jano"-"I still think that Alföldi's innovative art would be more suitable for a smaller alternative theater (like Bárka) and I also think that sometimes his sexual provocativeness is contrived and meaningless (öncélú?)."

I couldn't agree with you more.
Also, I do not believe that anybody has the right to push something down on the whole nation's throat just for the hell of it, in the name of art! (for selected groups,... well, go for it if this is what you need)

someone

latefor, have you seen the play? Why any give approach to directing benefit society? What way Pasolini and Fellini benefited society. Art is in the eye of the beholder, and not everyone have to like everything. My other half can't stand my cabbage roles, so should I stop cooking?
"It is frequently the tragedy of the great artist, as it is of the great scientist, that he frightens the ordinary man." Loren Eiseley

latefor

"someone"
Some of us ordinary men might not want to be frightened.We've been frightened long enough from the influence of violence on both the big and small screen, and luckily we are still standing (haven't killed each other yet)....surely you do not want to start with presenting the Roman orgies as guide line what you can get away with by pushing the boundaries? I do support unity in diversity but NOT at the cost of my own sanity. With all due respect.

I have one for you too by T.S.Elliot:
"Sometimes the only way forward is to go backward" Obviously Alfoldi took this quote very seriously......ha...ha..ha.. I would only look into the last let say 200 years, we might actually learn something.

latefor

"Someone" - yes, I have seen segments of the play and I have read many opinions for and against it. I am just scared that onscreen violence will be replaced with this new kind of influence, which could also lead to violence. I would love to explore this more but I don't want to. Leave to the imaginations.

 Eva S. Balogh

Latefor: "Jano"-"I still think that Alföldi's innovative art would be more suitable for a smaller alternative theater (like Bárka) and I also think that sometimes his sexual provocativeness is contrived and meaningless (öncélú?)." I couldn't agree with you more."

The theater is full all the time. At the last performance he received a standing ovation. So, there are people who like his productions. Not everybody will like all plays and all interpretations.

The problem is that the current Hungarian political regime wants to force its own taste on the whole country.

 Eva S. Balogh

Latefor: ". I am just scared that onscreen violence will be replaced with this new kind of influence, which could also lead to violence."

It has been hotly debated whether on-screen violence has a real and lasting influence. Apparently it doesn't.

someone

Latefor, what you are saying is that if we see imitated orgies on TV, we will have orgies all over town, on the street, in the library? I disagree. WHat people would do in their own home, on the other hand is their own business (as long as it does not involve force, does not cause bodily harm and it is consensual). As for violence, that is not tolerated even behind closed doors, as it is not consensual on the receiving end. There are movies I do not watch (and trust me I watch all genders), there are art shows I do not go to, there are live performances I could care less for.
I think the real question you are asking here is if Alfoldi's straight forward directing belongs to the National Theatre or not. My opinion that it does. The National Theatre should not only provide access to past and contemporary dramas, but a home for past and current trends about exhibiting those works. If the venue is wide enough that people can pick and choose between performances to see, I think the Nemzeti fulfilled what it should be for. I just visited their home page, and there is a performance for Children's Day, Berzsian and Dideki, there is a Bank Ban (Junior), 12 Angry Man, and there are dances, and guest theatres. For that matter I have counted 28 various performances, not a bad feast for any theatre, and for sure Alfoldi is not he only one who is directing. I do not see that anyone is forcing down on anyone's throat any specific performance.

Jano

Eva: I just wrote what I think. I certainly accept if other people think otherwise.

On the other hand, as much as Alföldi shouldn't go because he's gay (or jewish, I don't know), neither should he stay just because of it. Don't make him an anti-Fidesz hero, judge him exclusively by the art regardless of who likes him and who doesn't. (This may not be intended for most of the contributors here, but it's a general message for people)

Mutt Damon

Eva's right. This play belongs to the Nemzeti. One of the few things we should be proud of these days. Here is one blog about the standing ovation (sorry it is in Hungarian)

http://orulunkvincent.blog.hu/2011/05/26/tegnap_este_a_nemzetiben

From the post: "the Lord, portrayed as an elderly, conservative gentlemen, with a cane, astonished watching what the world became and forced to accept the cool cosmopolitan Lucifer as partner is the real provocation not the subtle hint of oral sex in Roman scene".

@Jano Sir Anthony Hopkins was marshaling the the 4th of July parade in US a few years ago somewhere in a big city, I don't remember. We should hug the Romanians and make a lot of money on them.

Mutt Damon

"It has been hotly debated whether on-screen violence has a real and lasting influence"

My son won his first headshot competition in on-line Counterstrike when he was 12. In the boyscout meeting they were still talking about bears.

I'm a bad parent ... sad.

 Eva S. Balogh

Jano: "Don't make him [Alföldi] an anti-Fidesz hero, judge him exclusively by the art regardless of who likes him and who doesn't."

You don't like his work. A lot of people do. But to break a contract and forcibly remove him from the National Theater just because his art is not appreciated by the Christian Democrats and Jobbik is absolutely outlandish.

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