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« How qualified will the new judges in the Hungarian Constitutional Court be?:The cases of Péter Szalay andEgon Dienes-Oehm | Main | Letter of the Democratic Opposition to Secretary of State Hillary Clinton »

June 27, 2011

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Comments

Paul

Interesting article.

But the belief that "the U.S. opposed dictatorships... it stood for the proposition that even the least effective democracy is worth more than the most effective dictatorship." is hardly supported by history.

Sackhoes Contributor

Paul: having met Tom Lantos on a number of occasions, I truly believe he meant his love of the US and democracy. The trouble is that in the real world, especially during the Cold War, there were not too many democracies to support. North Korea instead of South Korea? The Shah vs. Kohmeni? North Vietnam instead of South Vietnam? Battista instead of Castro? Not that easy to pick the democracy.

David

Tom Lantos was Jewish. The Johnny Boy element won't listen beyond this point.

Ed

First dreams and illusions:
The best fish can be found in Hungary. Lake Balaton is the nicest lake in the whole world. The bridges across the Danube are the most spectacular in the universe. The world’s most famous scientists, actors, mathematicians, composers, and poets were all Hungarians.

Reality: financial catastrophe, "Gypsy = Rome pogroms", antisemitism, "decreasing" relations with neighbours ...

Polite Hungarians wake up!

Ron

Dear Professor,

I do not know if this is possible within Typepad or other resources. But is it possible for the archives not to be on month basis, but on scroll article title basis.

Many times I want to reply on a current article using a previous article as reference. Mostly I remember the title (or part of it), but I am terrible with dates.

Thank you

Ron

Paul

SC - nice try, but again not supported by history. Again and again the US have supported vicious dictatorships, where it's suited them.

You might argue that it's just pragmatic politics - i.e. what's in the US's best interests (at least as seen at the time, by some). But what about Nicaragua (just the first example that pops into my head)?

The people rise against the oppressor and wage a bloody war against him. They eventually win and then set about transforming the country: introducing democracy, both national and local, rolling out a free health care service, running a revolutionary campaign to increase literacy rates.

And what does the US do? Funds the Contras, to blow up schools and kill and destroy indiscriminately. Until eventually the economy crashes and the democratically elected government (non-communist, I might add) falls, and everything they created is lost.

And what about the CIA's role in the fall of democracy in Chile?

Don't give me 'Americans love democracy'. You might as well claim that the British transported slaves across the Atlantic and sold drugs to the Chinese out of an altruistic desire to make their lives better!

peter litvanyi

Dear Paul:
Yes you are 100% right.
You know I am an American.
We should totally explore these issues on this /Eva's/ site: we can't fight fascism somewhere else if we don't fight it at home. I am with you.
Yet this was a gentle article about Tom. May he rest in peace now. God knows he did what he could.
Peter Litvanyi

Mutt Damon

Paul,

In both cases, Nicaragua and Chile, it was obvious for many, that these countries will turn into Soviet style communist countries with Cuban and Russian help. On the long run we would have had 2 more Cubas. You are biting the typical bolshevik bait: initial social reforms then by the time you wake up you lost all your freedom.

Paul

Point taken, Peter, I get a bit wound up about the US sometimes!

Joe Simon

The US did intervene in European affairs in two world wars and it was done, as always, for American interests. The US didnot save Europe. After 1918, it became a 'tűzfészek', ready for Round II, that basically finished the old continent. The US became a European power, something she always wanted. The US did nothing to defeat the Soviet Union. It collapsed on its own. Hungary's 1956 did more to undermine Soviet power than anything the US, including Ronald Reagan, did.

Some1

Joe Simon: "The US did intervene in European affairs in two world wars and it was done, as always, for American interests." As contrary to whom? Are you saying that Hungary ever acted in someone else's interest? Can you bring me some examples? Hungary actally was involved starting the two World Wars if you forgot, so there was no need for them to get any more involved. Hungary was not invaded he was the invader. Hungary got itself in the mass by the act of its incompetent leaders, and he unwillingness of the Hungarian population to to do something against it. (Detect some similarities?) I must agree with you at one point although, as I never agreed with the theory that the collapse of Hungary, Russia, etc. was due for any "deus ex machina", but the death of Brezhnev. THere were certainly more then a handful tried to get into the history books when choosing to get involved when it started to became very safe to show strength. (In Hungary this moment arrived with the decline of Kadar' health.) One of these people were Orban (I still haven't heard from anyone on this board who can let me know about Orban's great achievements in opposition prior to 1988. THat is certainly my opinion, and I would be glad to hear other's take on this.

 Eva S. Balogh

Some1: "One of these people were Orban (I still haven't heard from anyone on this board who can let me know about Orban's great achievements in opposition prior to 1988."

I think this is correct. At the same time Gábor Demszky at the moment is fighting for a pension that would take into consideration of six or eight years when he couldn't get a job as a punishment for his political activities. And by the way, Demszky was never accused of any corruption and he was mayor of Budapest for twenty years. Popularly elected.

Paul

Mutt - " then by the time you wake up you lost all your freedom."

Which is exactly what happened - US style.


At least under the democratically elected governments they had a hope that things might improve.

The 'Russia/Cuba' 'domino effect' nonsense was just US propaganda to justify their 'need' to keep South America under their control.

They behaved (and still behave) like any empire protecting their (narrowly defined) interests - hence my comparison to the British Empire. We no doubt justified our actions using similar nonsense when we were enslaving, killing and drug dealing.

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