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« The Hungarian plan to reduce unemployment | Main | How qualified will the new judges in the Hungarian Constitutional Court be?:The cases of Péter Szalay andEgon Dienes-Oehm »

June 25, 2011

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Paul

Well, this might turn out to be a Faustian pact, but at the moment it looks like OV hasn't lost his touch. If this all works out, he could not only have saved Hungary from years of struggle, but could actually have given Hungary quite an edge over her Central European neighbours.

However, I don't know enough about any of this to assess the risk or try to work out what the Chinese are up to. I can't believe they're doing all this just because they like OV! (As so often, I wish Mark was still with us.)

The irony here is pretty ripe, though. All those years I've been hearing about outsiders buying up Hungary and how the Communists (irony upon irony!) sold Hungary to the Jews, and how Fidesz were going to put a stop to this and create a "Hungary for the Hungarians".

And now this!


Hoping

Any idea of the name of the Pharma company investing in Gyula? Having a certain connection to this sector I am curious and could maybe give some background.

Ron

I found a report analyzing the EU stance on China. It was prepared in 2007. And I believe it did not lost in value.

http://ecfr.3cdn.net/532cd91d0b5c9699ad_ozm6b9bz4.pdf

Based upon this document the EU relations with China can be divided in four groups, may be now with the new situation in Hungary in five groups. It is a 115 page document.

On page 41 an interesting line is mentioned. "Beijing is approaching the EU not as a partner to be wooed, but as an economic space to be used for its own development."

After reading this whole paper one thing is certain. China will not attack Hungary about Human Rights nor Hungary China.

Wondercat

When the texts of these agreements are web-posted, ma'am, please provide links. I should particularly like to learn what plans are afoot for the railways. With best thanks in advance --

Some1

I believe that the forced labour and the Chinese contracts are intertwined. I also find laughable how Orban is talking about the great progress in Chine (he is not only referring economical progress here). I remember when they had huge problem with previous governments dealing with communist countries or heaven forbid taking a vacation in communist countries. Then again these are the double standards that every intelligent human being would see miles away wit the exception of the loyal base of Fidesz. The story of the Emperor's new clothes will never get old.
Maybe what Orban really wants to learn from China is how to keep prices down. As we know China provides the third largest number of children who work. Even though they have laws that not allow child labour (under 16), they do not crack down on the large companies who rake in the dough and help with keeping the current government in power (sounds familiar). I think Hungary i already teaching a lesson or two for China, and that is how to install forced labour and circumvent the most basic human rights. THe two countries together will achieve a lot.

TOVÁBB?

horthy - hitler reich, orban - china reich, historical errors.

orban has no sympathy for the ordinary hungarians, and no interest in the average chinese citizen.

his suitcase was certainly filled up again, this time with rmb.

GW

Some1, you're absolutely right in making the connection between forced labor and the Chinese contracts. The forced labor plans take a page directly out of the PRC playbook, the "reform through labor" system or Laogai, which is now at least honestly labeled "prison."

Mutt Damon

I think the Chinese want to outsource the "Made In China" label manufacturing to Hungary. They cannot keep up with demand. Meanwhile Orban is trying to assemble the Hungarian bunk-o-matic in China.

It's hilarious reading the Fidesz mucky muck's pro-Tibet speeches in the past on the index.hu.

 Eva S. Balogh

Mutt: "It's hilarious reading the Fidesz mucky muck's pro-Tibet speeches in the past on the index.hu."

Gábor Török also talked about that in his blog today (torokgaborelemez)and recalled Zoltán Balog waiving the Tibetan flag!

GW

The decline of Zoltán Balog, from his days as a progressive pastor to the German reformed protestant congregation in Budapest until today, is a real tragedy.

Odin's lost eye

Pusztaranger I would make your self a copy of that before some one deletes it!.

 Eva S. Balogh

Because I was informed that there might be some problem with the blog because people had problems with posting, this is a test.

Paul

Reliable Typepad again! The blog was actually unavailable for an hour or two a couple of days ago.

John T

while Hungary is not alone in cozying up to Prime Minister Wen during his European trip, Orban's gushing words, bearing in mind his normal hardline anti-communist stance, do leave a somewhat nasty taste. The photo used here says a lot too, with a wall half covered with red flags.
That said, the Chinese are playing a blinder in terms of how they are using their economic strength and massive currency reserves, to exert their power. Their current moves in Europe build on their actions in Africa, where they have provided huge amounts of targeted investment to secure raw material contracts.
The deals signed in Budapest, will no doubt benefit Hungary, but make no mistake, China will gain, much, much more by turning the country into it's logistic's hub and central warehouse.
From a purely selfish point of view though, if they develop Vat airport, it may be a new destination for Ryanair (Budapest Airport for them :-) ), and give me a cheap option to travel to Szombathely / Torony from the UK!

Johnny Boy

I wonder when you'll give up your malicious attempts to falsely depict Hungary as a country that gets more and more isolated because of the government.

Publishing such news severely work against your "cause", but that's life.

Latest development is that Hillary Clinton will visit Hungary, despite your beloved treasonous individuals having done their best to deter her with lies.

I understand you must be very disappointed that things don't seem to unfold to fulfil your catastrophic wishes, and the day of seizing power again doesn't seem to get closer.

Paul

That's a thought - Debrecen could do with some development. EasyJet flights direct to Debrecen! Sod democracy, I'd vote Fidesz for that!

GW

Johnny Boy, stick to the article. Do you support the detention of ethnic Tibetans in the Office of Immigration during the visit of the Chinese Premier? Do you support the denial of their right to protest Chinese policy in Tibet? Do you support the plans to use police, called back from pension, to supervise unemployed people in forced labor? Do you recognize a parallel between this plan and the PRC's use of prison labor? Do you think that unemployment should be criminalized in Hungary?

 Eva S. Balogh

JB: "Latest development is that Hillary Clinton will visit Hungary, despite your beloved treasonous individuals having done their best to deter her with lies."

If the information that reaches me from quite reliable sources is accurate, Viktor Orbán will not be very happy during his meeting with Hillary Clinton

Ivan

"Hungary is glad that it could welcome the prime minister of a state who not only contributed so much to the development of his own country but also splendidly benefitted the global well being of the world. We don't know of any such other instance in history when during such a short time so many people were lifted out of poverty and brought to levels worthy of human beings." - OV

This, then, I take it, is the true Fidesz view on Communism?

OV's view, not mine.

Well?

Well?

Johnny Boy?

Paul

I'm puzzled as to why SB never posts at weekends. Does he not have a PC at home?

Or is it that he's not allowed to post when his Fidesz controller isn't around in case he goes 'off piste'?

Ivan

"Latest development is that Hillary Clinton will visit Hungary, despite your beloved treasonous individuals having done their best to deter her with lies." - JB

Please substantiate.

That's quite an allegation.

So. Add some beef to the trolling, sir.

John T

Johnny Boy - As I said in my opening sentence, Hungary is not alone in cozying up to the Chinese. Prime Minister Wen is currently getting similar treatment in the UK. But unless something changed overnight while I was asleep, China is a one party,totalitarian regime that censors it's citizens and clamps down on dissidents. I thought that Orban hated this type of regime? Or is the Chinese model one that both he and you would now like to follow? Seems like principles about human rights go right out of the window as soon as a bit of money is involved.

Paul - the Ryanair comment was meant to be tongue in cheek :-)

Paul

I think it's time we tackled SB's over-use of the word 'lie' too.

The word is quite easily defined and the definition seems to be universally accepted. At least it is outside of Fidesz.

A 'lie' has three components - it must be: a) not true, b) known to be not true by the person saying it, and c) said by that person for malicious reasons.

In other words, for it to be a lie, you have to know it's not true AND you have to be saying it maliciously.

If it's just a difference of opinion it's not a lie. If it's wrong but the person saying it believes it to be right, it's not a lie.

In fact it's very rare to find any lies on HS. The only ones I can think off offhand are in SB's own posts, where he deliberately (and maliciously) sets out to paint people in a negative way, knowing that his portrayal isn't true.

Ivan

He doesn't answer questions. He doesn't engage in civilised debate. He doesn't substantiate any allegation. He presents no evidence. He distracts.

Most of all, he distracts:

from the concerns of those who love Hungary, from the concerns of those who suffer under the current mindset and policy, from those who actually think and care about Hungary and the wider world.

Yes, he represents (unfortunately) a huge proportion of the ignorant mindset.

But yes, also, I've changed my mind - the level of scattergun offence is such that he SHOULD be banned. Mainly because he adds nothing.

(or, y'know, he could actually change his mind and have a debate - at the moment he is not a good ambassador, either for his mindset OR this site)

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