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« Economic predictions for 2011-2013 | Main | The Jobbik candidate won the mayoral elections in Gyöngyöspata »

July 17, 2011

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Mutt Damon

Are they going to bring back the "levente" organizations? Again some idiot is dreaming about the period between the first and the second world wars?

By the way the MIG-29s were retired last year. In what condition are those birds? Who would want those? Some south American dictator? India? A MIG-29 Fulcrum is about 30 million dollars new, while a Leopard 2 is about 6 million. The tanks probably more useful if Laszlo Kover wants back that few truckloads of pebbles along the Danube from Slovakia ...

Kirsten

Difficult to imagine that this growth strategy will yield the fabulous tax income expected for the near future. At least the Crown is safe, what a relief.

Paul

"All 900 of them will be serving in Budapest as riot police."

I was wondering how seriously OV took the possibility of serious resistance to him on the streets. Now we know.

He's not going to go without a bloody fight.

Ron

To have basic Military Science at schools is not necessary bad, if the education is focused on management, such as Sun Tzu or Napoleon and quality issues. And as per the story of the professor that seems to be the case.

As to some kind of new Hitler Jugend I am not so thrilled.

As to the other issue with bodyguard turned terrorist fighter, I wonder how many terrorist they caught or assisting in prevention.

Furthermore, I wonder under the NATO agreement how much they need to spent on Defense and on what. Are they breaching the treaty?

 Eva S. Balogh

Ron: "Furthermore, I wonder under the NATO agreement how much they need to spent on Defense and on what. Are they breaching the treaty?"

Yes, they are. They are supposed to spend 1.8% of the GDP but the actual money spent is well under 1%.

Ron

Paul:"All 900 of them will be serving in Budapest as riot police."

I assume that to be member of the riot police was based upon voluntary basis. After 2006 I assume that not many policemen wanted to be part of this, if the politics are not backing them up.

So the voluntary base is missing now. And very soon it may be difficult for the government to hire new police recruits or even army recruits.

GW

"They are supposed to spend 1.8% of the GDP but the actual money spent is well under 1%."

This, the major hardware move from air forces to tanks, and increases in lowest-level soldiers and designated "riot police" adds up to the "military" spending being more for internal then external purposes. The nostalgic palace guard uniforms are a useful distraction, but a distraction from numbers and an attachment to the person of OV that should frighten anyone who believes in smooth transitions between democratically-elected governments.

The fact that the government is so willing to avoid its NATO agreements — many NATO partners are deficit in this regard, but none so egregiously — suggests that it preparing to go it alone.

Ron wrote:

"After 2006 I assume that not many policemen wanted to be part of this, if the politics are not backing them up."

I think we should not underestimate the potential of larger scale young, untrained, male unemployment with a growing nationalist propaganda to create a huge supply of recruits with "authoritarian personalities." If you don't need to provide your soldiers with high tech weaponry, military and para-military employment can be a cheap tool against unemployment and a way of keeping your most potentially disruptive demographic under control.

nimh

Insanity..

Joe Simon

The Militarization of Hungary? The usual peevish, petulant and incorrect reaction so characteristic of Spectrum. 'Katonai alapismeretek', a subject that will be elective in some schools. In a country where there is no conscription, for students to learn something about the military is not a bad idea. The Swiss also have a similar system.

pusztaranger

Another aspect: I wonder if part of the plan is to train soldiers cheaply in order to lend them for profit later. The government wants to make the Hungarian work force the most flexible in Europe (Hungarian Work Plan/forced labour), so why not train kids from poor areas, especially Roma, for military service and then lend them to conflict parties elsewhere via private contractors, much like the közmunkások, generating income for the state. On a defence ministry conference on "Roma integration in the Army" this spring, state secretary for integration Zoltán Balog referred to the army as "the most important institution in terms of social integration". Trading soldiers was big in 18th century German absolutism, so why shouldn't it work for OV today.

GW

Joe Simon:

There is absolutely no comparison with Switzerland, which has universal male conscription into a near-universal reserve army.

blondé

Eva I've been reading your blog for years and first of all I would like to wholeheartedly thank you for writing it with such devotion and objectivity. I am not too keen on the politics and I wish the current political scene here was boring enough for you to write more about culture and history.

Perhaps loosely still on the subject of the dangers of militarization of Hungarian society today, you could write a blog about the Sándor Képiró trial that ended today with a non-guilty verdict and the implications of it.

 Eva S. Balogh

Blondé: "you could write a blog about the Sándor Képiró trial that ended today with a non-guilty verdict and the implications of it."

Indeed, it is an important topic and I will get to it. But, as you said, unfortunately politics is not at all boring in Hungary. Here is the mayoral race in Gyöngyöspata and there is also the charge of "espionage" and what is behind it. It seems that the secret is no longer a secret. I wish I had more time but it is not easy to write a blog of about 1,000 words every day.

Thank you for your kind words.

elevezett-nemzet

all activities are generated by the underemployed civil servants.

they are afraid to lose their jobs, so they try to dream up flattering proposals.

it would be better to pay their salary and let them stay home to refrain from damaging all Hungary in cooperation with the insane fidesz, kereszteny dems, and rossszabbiks...

koeszmeod

Thank you Eva for all.

Speaking about hot topics:

Kepiro Trial:What can we expect? As we learnt from the New Constitution, Hungarians are not responsible for the Holocaust.

Gyongyospata =Tragedy

Freedom House Testimony on July 15 2011

"Freedom House President David Kramer testified today before the US Helsinki Commission regarding the suppression of internet freedom in the Organization for Security and Cooperation in Europe (OSCE) region. Mr. Kramer began with a prediction that Belarusian President Lukashenka’s “days are numbered” and emphasized the importance of the internet in mobilizing young activists in Belarus. Mr. Kramer went on to summarize the status of internet freedom in several OSCE countries and highlighted the chilling effect new legislation has had on online media outlets in Hungary."

http://www.freedomhouse.org/images/File/speeches_and_testimonies/HelsinkiCommissionTestimony-InternetFreedom.pdf
(Hungary is on page 9)

Paul

"The Militarization of Hungary? 'Katonai alapismeretek', a subject that will be elective in some schools. In a country where there is no conscription, for students to learn something about the military is not a bad idea. The Swiss also have a similar system."

See how much better that reads? A valid point made, an arguable comparison suggested. All in all, a valuable contribution to the debate, and a very welcome different opinion.

But, as always, the pro-Fidesz posters shoot themselves in the foot by not being able to hold back on the insults and invective.

Why do you do it? If you post on here in the hope that your different opinion will actually influence us, then you undermine any chance of success you have as soon as you start on the personal attacks and intemperate language.

We badly need someone voicing a valid difference of opinion on here, it's far too comfy without it, but it has to be presented in a way we can respect.

Hoping

Eva "It seems that the secret is no longer a secret."

What is it? Watching TV and news all evening and nothing about this. Can you tell?

 Eva S. Balogh

You want me to kill my own story for tomorrow? But I suggest that you read HVG (July 18) and try to put two and two together.

Mutt Damon
chayenne

the idead of a new 'riot police' clearly suggests to me that Orban is well aware of the possible implications of his political and economical program. After a point, people who have nothing to lose anymore because they have been thrown into abject poverty will go out in the street and revolt. that would of course be a terrible thing to happen, but in my opinion everything that is going down in the country right now is leading up to such a culmination of events. Orban wants to have a large riot police at hand, just like his very own private Counter-terrorist people whose only resposibility is to protect his precious person and maybe other members of his government if the time comes. Also, the purchase of tanks makes one visualise a riot scene in the streets where the angry mob can only be forced to retreat by such means. I really wish that all this is just the figment of my imagination. But it all seems so logical.

Odin's lost eye

I was re reading the Treaty of Paris 1947. This is peace treaty which restored Hungary’s right to self government. I was looking for articles concerning restitution. When I stumbled across this
Part III Military and Air Clauses.
Article 14 (which states)
“Personnel not included in the Hungarian Army or Air Force shall not receive any form of military training or military air training as defined in Annex II” which I have copied below.
ANNEX II
(See Article 14)
DEFINITION OF MILITARY AND MILITARY AIR TRAINING
1. Military training is defined as: the study of and practice in the use of war material specially designed or adapted for army purposes, and training devices relative thereto; the study and carrying out of all drill or movements which teach or practice evolutions performed by fighting forces in battle; and the organised study of tactics, strategy and staff work.
2. Military air training is defined as: the study of and practice in the use of war material specially designed or adapted for air force purposes, and training devices relative thereto; the study and practice of all specialised evolutions, including formation flying, performed by aircraft in the accomplishment of an air force mission; and the organised study of air tactics, strategy and staff work.

Oh Me oh my! What are these ignoramuses up to now?

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