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« Now Imre Nagy is removed from the Hungarian national pantheon | Main | Viktor Orbán's vision of the international financial world »

November 29, 2011

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Paul

Thanks, Éva. Looking forward to the continuation.

Some1

I just love to read this. That young girl thrown into this unexpected turmoil. The fears, doubts and cockiness so well portrayed. I love it because it shows that these "young" people did not go into this to become heros or celebrities. They had no idea how big or how small the outcome will be, but then they just rolled with it.
It is incredible that how many people try to ride the long lasting wave of the effects of the uprising. Safely from their own secure positions three decades later took advantage of the "trademark' of '56. Now that it does not serve their purpose any longer, they try to dispose it and undermine it. In a few weeks the scum of that revolution will be lifted up as heros. Anyone and everyone who have had anything to do with the communists in the past or in the present and anyone who is a liberal today will be erased from the history books who hae had anything to do . Orban rewrites history Back to the Future style.

GW

These posts are very valuable, Eva, particularly with the current efforts to rewrite the history of '56. The authentic words of witnesses to history become very precious.

"...on Köztársaság tér (today, after Mayor István Tarlós's street-naming spree, II. János Pál tér..."

The efforts of the current government to remove all traces of republicanism from Hungary, from the constitution to street names, are astonishing. In this case, JP II may well, in the public imagination, deserve a place of his own, but certainly not in the place reserved for honoring the Republic.

Some1

I apologize, but i would like to carry over the Imre Nagy conversation here.
As I have mentioned above, Orban and his comrades are working hard to rewrite history. THey are adding and taking away facts, trying to destroy evidences. Orban, Pozsgay, Szuros, Kover Schmitt involvement with the communist party were very in-depth. If any of them think that Imre Nagy is not qualified to be remembered as a Hungarian hero because he started out as a communist, under what grounds are any of these hypocrites can even face Hungarians? Imre Nagy made a choice to give his life for Hungary, instead of blending in to a branch of the communist movement he did not agree with any further. The freedom and independence of Hungary was more important to him, then climbing the party latter for the expense of Hungarians.
Orban, Pozsgay, Szuros and Kover willingly participated in the repression (they claim happened in Hungary up to 1989). I am sure many of the Hungarian posters are familiar with the term "kader jelentes". I am not sure exactly how to translate "kader". Cadre? Anyway when someone was applying for an important position, especially for a political position, beside his own curriculum vitae, the government also collected a report, that contained all the information on this person. Several built in agents (III/III agents) put this report together at the workplace, at the parents, and siblings workplace. Not only that the applicant in his resume had to commit himself with the ideology of the communist party, he had to acclaim that he will be serving (become a servant) of the party. THe report on the relatives of the applicant also had to be perfect, or it had to have some indication that the applicant is willing to report on or evangelize his/her family members. You can just imagine the resume of Imre Pozsgay, Matyas Szuros, Pal Schmitt to get in the position under the communist they held, hence whay it is so important to them to destroy the National Archives.
The funny thing is that these morally corrupted "politicians" would like to set up the same III/III they are cursing, and likely have been part of under the communists. They want to open files on each Hungarian. People who will work to this "department" would require no permission to access personal and private information (including phone tapping, mail x-ray, etc.) 1984 is 2012 Hungary.

Paul

The forint recovered quite spectacularly today - back to where it was after the IMF false dawn of few days ago.

Anyone know why?

Eva S. Balogh

Paul: "The forint recovered quite spectacularly today - back to where it was after the IMF false dawn of few days ago. Anyone know why?"

It has nothing to do with Hungary but by central banks of several countries (USA, Canada, Australia, Switzerland among others) to provide liquidity to Europe. Plus the US figures were great today.

Ron

Eva/Paul: Here is the article in Portfolio.hu

http://www.portfolio.hu/en/fx/hungary_forint_firms_to_1-week_high_vs_eur.23359.html

For me, in a surprise move, Tamas Fellegi is now leader of the negotiation with IMF and not Matolcsy.

A few days ago, some Fidesz members mentioned that Matolcsy should stay on for the negotiations with IMF. So it seems to me he will be letting go soon.

Some1

Tamas Fellegi.. an other opresed Hungarian under Orban's wings, who had to suffer under the communism. Just a few years after Kover finally was allowed with his fellow Hungarians to visit the West, In 1985 Fellegi acquired a scholarship to Harvard University. This was four years before the changes. The times according to Orban and Kover were hard on those who did not serve the communist dictators. Poor Fellegi, it must of been so hard for him to arrange to leave Hungary as I am sure he was one of the great opposition member who spoke up against communism.

Eva S. Balogh

some1: "Just a few years after Kover finally was allowed with his fellow Hungarians to visit the West, In 1985 Fellegi acquired a scholarship to Harvard University."

And that's not all. Two years later he returned to the United States and studied and worked at the University of Connecticut where he got a Ph.D.

UConn is not exactly Harvard but Rudi Tőkés, a Hungarian political scientist, was a professor there. I assume he helped Fellegi to be accepted by UConn as a graduate student. Although getting a Ph.D. there wasn't a great feat!

Kirsten

When reading Eva's account I was thinking that 1968 does not play a major role in current Czech politics either. By 1992 definitely it was clear that these changes will go way beyond 1968 and therefore the Prague Spring was not the an inspiration for the changes (eg with the argument that this was reform communism = 'bad'). Also the key players have not been honoured prominently. I think there is not even a Dubcek street in Prague. I hope that I gather more information on that by the time Eva writes part III.

Paul

Kirsten - wasn't Dubcek honoured in some way when communism finally fell there? I seem to remember quite a fuss being made of him.

Although I'm too young to remember 56, I can clearly recall the Prague Spring. The sixties seemed such a time of hope and change, and nothing seemed impossible. So when things started to change in Czechoslovakia, it felt inevitable that they would succeed.

So it was a huge shock when the tanks moved in, and it marked my generation for life. The earlier generation had seen the Sovietisation of Eastern Europe, so I suppose assumed what had been done could be undone one day. But for us, after 68 (and learning about 56), it seemed that there was no hope. I remember arguing that the Berlin Wall was permanent and we had better get used to two Germanies - it wasn't going to change.

!989/90 was a huge shock, what had seemed so completely permanent collapsed almost overnight. One minute people were being shot for trying to get over the Wall, the next they were walking through it.

I still have moments when I can't believe that I am married to a Hungarian and can travel back and forth between the two countries at will. I lived most of the first four decades of my life with the everyday reality of the cold war and immanent nuclear disaster.

The one memory that really sticks in my mind from 68 was from a BBC news broadcast towards the end. By then most resistance had ended, and there were just a few pockets holding out. One radio 'ham' was still on the air and they played a recording of his broadcast, desperately pleading for help from the West.

The sound of that lonely voice, nearly drowned in static, desperately pleading for help and asking why 'we' in the West weren’t sending any haunts me still.

Kirsten

I saw now that he was awarded in 2003 (10 years after his death) the highest order of the Czech Republic. There is one square in Bratislava/Pozsony named after him, but none in the Czech Republic. I think that Imre Nagy has been honoured more (at least until now). Also, the 21 August is not even an "important day" (the non-working days that are nevertheless considered important, such as a day that commemorates the show trials), far from the day off that Hungarians enjoy on 23 October. I have not thought about the significance of 1968 for today's Czech Republic until I read the debate here about Imre Nagy. Only the arguments why 1956 should be downplayed have reminded me of something that I heard already :-), as they have been advanced also with respect to 1968. Certainly you will hear that it is not 'decent' to vote even for the social democrats (not a successor party to the Communist party), no matter how corrupt the alternatives. That is also similar. But now I want to know and I will try to find out more.

Kirsten

...workdays that are nevertheless considered important...

Paul

I'm sure I can remember a very old (and rather ill looking) Dubcek being welcomed onto a platform somewhere and being cheered by the crowds. And I'm sure this was fairly early on in events.

Wondercat

Prof Balogh, I mistrust the permanence of electronic media. Verba volant, and so on.

I hope that your memoirs are set down somewhere in ink on paper. Scripta manent. Et scripta memoria vestra thesauri.

Paul

Well, thankfully my memory proves more reliable than usual - this is from Wikipedia:

"During the Velvet Revolution of 1989, he supported the Public against Violence (VPN) and the Civic Forum. On the night of 24 November, Dubček appeared with Václav Havel on a balcony overlooking Wenceslas Square, He was greeted with uproarious applause from the throngs of protesters below, embraced as a symbol of democratic freedom. He disappointed the crowd somewhat by calling for pruning out what was wrong with Communism. By this time, however, the demonstrators in Prague wanted nothing to do with Communism of any sort. Later that night, Dubček was on stage with Havel at the Laterna Magika theater, the headquarters of Civic Forum, when the entire leadership of the Communist Party resigned--in effect, ending Communist rule in Czechoslovakia.[3]

Dubček was elected Chairman of the Federal Assembly (Czecho-Slovak Parliament) on 28 December 1989, and re-elected in 1990 and 1992."


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Dub%C4%8Dek

Kirsten

Yes, this is true, he was also president of the parliament until 1991 but I meant afterwards. The speech of OV in 1989 also did not point to any particular criticism. I was thinking about how the interpretation has evolved and what I meant is that somehow (which is what I would like to find out) during the past 15 years, 1968 has been eclipsed in the Czech political life, (most likely) with arguments that are similar to those read here.

Paul

Kirsten - now I see what you mean. You are right, the same has happened in both countries. But for very different reasons.

In the CR I think this was a natural process of moving away from the communist past. In 1989 the Velvet Revolution was seen, at least in part, in terms of completing the unfinished business of 1968. But, these days it is seen as the beginning of an entirely new process - the movement away from Communism towards a modern Western, capitalist state.

In 89 Dubcek was seen as very much a part of what was going on, but by now he is seen as part of the old Communist days. Which, on reflection, I think is actually the correct perspective. As with Nagy, he has to be seen in the context of his time - a time when an absolute breakaway from Communism would have been unthinkable to two such long-serving (and sincere) members of the party.

Curiously, in Hungary the same thing didn't happen. Probably because of the differences between the two 'revolutions' and the very different fate of the two leaders.

There has always been a minority anti-Nagy view, but, until recently, he has broadly been seen as a true hero. And the connection between what he tried to do and what happened 33 years later was obvious to all.

That he is now being portrayed as some sort of historical embarrassment by the revisionist in Fidesz is a deep shame for Hungary.

Eva S. Balogh

Wondercat: "Prof Balogh, I mistrust the permanence of electronic media. Verba volant, and so on. I hope that your memoirs are set down somewhere in ink on paper. Scripta manent. Et scripta memoria vestra thesauri."

I have a longer Hungarian version I wrote at the request of an internet acquaintance who wanted to honor his mother.

I didn't print it out but I could. Plus I can always give it to the 56 Institute that is if Viktor Orbán doesn't close its doors permanently.

Paul

Is there a good history of 56 in English – can anyone recommend one?

So far, I haven't found one, so I've had to make the best of the chapters dealing with this topic in various general histories, articles in Hungarian Quarterly, etc (and, of course, the excellent pieces on this blog).

The result is a 'history' that is far from complete and is, in places, contradictory. As an example of what I mean, despite years of reading everything I can find on 56, I've learnt quite a lot of stuff that was entirely new to me – and gained a new perspective - just from reading this blog over the last few months.

Oddly, the book that's most impressed me as a history of 56 so far is by an Englishman who wasn't there, and is not actually supposed to be a 'normal' history! The book in question is Bob Dent's 'Budapest 56 - Locations of Drama', and I recommend it to anyone who wants a non-partisan view of what happened (or might have happened!).

What Dent sets out to do is to take each of the main locations of action in Budapest in 56 (for example the Corvin Cinema) and to tell the story of their part in 56. But in so doing he is forced to also try to tell the story of the general uprising itself (which he didn’t set out to do).

His history is not just interesting because he approaches the subject from an unusual angle, but also that he comes to it as a foreigner (albeit one who has lived in Hungary for half his life), with no political axe to grind and no real preconceived notions as to what happened or why.

At time he comes up with contradictory evidence of events and doesn't try to take sides - he just presents all views/memories. He is even harangued by at least one 56er for getting several of his 'facts' quite wrong - after all she "was there". Even there he doesn't try to judge which was right, he just puts down all the evidence he has.

The end result is a very readable and honest account of what was (and will probably remain) a very confusing and contentious period. You are not necessarily left with a much greater understanding of the detail or sequence of the uprising, but you do gain a much greater appreciation of just how confusing that time was, and how easy it was for the participants to have such wildly differing memories and understandings of what happened and why.

As well as a surprisingly good history (up to this book, I hadn't been that impressed with Dent's writings), it's also a very good 'source' for the appreciation of just how confusing 'history' was when it was actually happening, and how difficult it is to squeeze and mould what we know of that time or event into a narrative that is both 'accurate' and understandable.

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