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« Viktor Orbán and the eleven government-friendly economists: Someone is not telling the truth | Main | An eyewitness account: October 1956, Part II »

November 28, 2011

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Joseph Simon

October 23 is a National Holiday in Hungary and there is a boulevard in Budapest az '56osok Útja. Nagy Imre is a hero for us, I have just completed a biography of him. If this is what OV is doing, I am greatly puzzled as to why.

HungaryWakeUp

The Nagy Imre Tarsasag with the leadership of Dr. Ferenc Donath will keep the legacy of 1956 alive.

Orban is Vona.

The task is to peel away the electorate from the FIDESZ-JOBBIK clique, and to attract them with something honest, like a New Deak movement.

An

"The Christian Democratic chairman of the committee added that one cannot single out Imre Nagy, who is after all a controversial figure. In his opinion Cardinal József Mindszenty or even István Bibó were more important in 1956 than Nagy. "

Is it a bad joke?

Somebody please wake me up from this nightmare. Every day I read several things on the Hungarian news that are greatly disturbing.

Now the latest is that the government is creating a super-secret service that can freely access and collect all personal data, that were stored is separate government databases up till now. So, for example, it will be possible to access citizen's medical records, their tax return, and speeding violations in one database. Splendid.

Oh, and journalist will have to reveal their sources to this new super secret service authority without a court order. Wonderful.

Mutt Damon

"Itt Nagy Imre beszél, a Magyar Népköztársaság minisztertanácsának elnöke. Ma hajnalban a szovjet csapatok támadást indítottak fővárosunk ellen azzal a nyilvánvaló szándékkal, hogy megdöntsék a törvényes magyar demokratikus kormányt. Csapataink harcban állnak! A kormány a helyén van. Ezt közlöm az ország népével és a világ közvéleményével!"

"This is Prime Minister Imre Nagy. The Soviet troops have been attacking the capital since the early hours of the morning. Our troops are engaged in battle, the government is still in place. I would like to bring this fact to the attention of our country and the international community."

He died for this.

King Orban the 5th doesn't have the cohones to make the same speech.

What kind of stupid country is this? Changing it's heroes like underwear. Who's next? Batman?

Paul

Compare and contrast:

Orbán attacked the Soviet troops in his great speech, safe in the knowledge that they had already agreed to go, and that he was taking no risks whatsoever.

Nagy reluctantly took responsibility for a nascent state standing up against the full might of the Soviet army, in the certain knowledge that they could (and would) crush him.

One was a true hero, putting his life on the line out of duty, not personal gain. The other is a cowardly political opportunist, who will stoop to anything to keep power.

Sackhoes Contributor

There is no question that Imre Nagy was a true Communist, perhaps truer than Rakosi or Gero and the rest of the ruling elite between 1945 and 1956. He joined the Communist Party as a young man and eventually ended up as one of the Moscow Hungarians, who survived Stalin's purge of Bela Kun and many others. He returned with the Red Army and quickly became the symbol attached to the privatization and then sovietization of the farmland countryside. He was responsible for the destruction of the Hungarian farmer population, he ordered the forced confiscation of food stuff stored and hidden from the authorities. If his goons did not find "counterband", they made sure it was planted.

That's the bad memory of Imre Nagy.

At the same time Nagy became more and more alarmed by the excesses comitted by Rakosi and slowly became the symbol of internal (communist) opposition to the Stalinist/Rakosi line. In 1953 he seemed to win the power struggle, after Stalin died and Nagy instituted a somewhat kinder, gentler communism. Sovietization (kolhoz) of the land was slowed down, thye depoetees were allowed to leave the places of local arrest. The air was less oppressive.

Rakosi did not rest, remained head of the party (Nagy was head of the government) and with Moscow's approval eased out Nagy, stripping him from all posts and his party membership. The country, however, especially the left wing "intelligencia" did not approve of Rakosi's return and through 55 and the summer 56 the pot was starting to boil.

This is how we arrived at October 56. The reburial of Laszlo Rajk, another faithful Communist, responsible for some of the worst excesses of the AVO, but one who was executed by Rakosi because he had contacts during the Spanish Civil War with the Croatian communist Josip Broz, who went by the codename of Tito. Rakosi did not trust anybody who did not spend the 30's and early 40's in Moscow, so he executed him. By 1956, especially in the minds of the intellectuals, Rajk's memory was transformed into that of a martyr. That was on October 6, 56. Then came the momentous and confusing events starting on October 23.

Nagy was a reluctant head of the government and certainly not the leader of the revolution. He regularly consulted with Moscow on what to do and was desperate for a peaceful sulution.

But, as events overtook him and others, he underwent a miraculous transformation. He became less the Communist leader and started to think and feel as a Hungarian. He desperately tried to take Hungary out of Moscow's sphere of influence and drive it to neutrality. He also realized that his Communist party has lost all credibility and agreed to an enlarged, multi-party government (which is how Istvan Bibo became a minister).

On November 4th perhaps he still believed that the "good guys" can survive and create a solution and took temorary refuge in the Yugoslav embassy. It was there, betrayed by both Kadar, the Russians and even the Yugoslavs, that he walked into a trap and was taken prisoner to Romania.

It was during his imprisonment in Romania that his position hardened aganst both the Soviet Union and especially against Kadar, who as a leading supporter of Nagy and a member of Nagy's government, shamelessly betrayed him.

Nagy was a true martyr, who refused to bow to his traitor enemies and went to his death as a proud Hungarian.

I was a teenager at the time. I can vividly recall saying at the time that should Hungary and Imre Nagy have succeded, I would have never voted for him, because I do not believe in Communism, but I would have been proud to call him a friend and a hero.

It's a shame his memory has been hijacked by politicians who are moral midgets compared to Imre Nagy.

Sandor

Just a few months ago, when I suggested that Orban is a wannabe Mussolini and his is a fascist government, the best I could get from you all was gentle waiving of hands and slight disapproval of the facial kind.
This was not the first time when my prediction was pooh-pooed. (Similar was when I predicted that Orban's economic madness will fail within eighteen months, he complied punctually, but nobody here remembered the prediction anymore.) repeat my assertion let's see if there are any, who still disagree.

peter litvanyi

Dear Eva,
re the sentece: "In 1956 the intellectual leaders of the revolution were dreaming of some kind of socialist democracy. In practical terms they had the Yugoslav model in mind, such as factories actually run by the workers. Surely, this idea was no more than utopianism. In 1956, again following the Yugoslav example and taking their cue from Austria's status, the intellectuals of 1956 envisioned a neutral state that would be a guarantee for the Soviet Union that the new socialist Hungary wouldn't be antagonistic toward its eastern neighbor. The coat-of-arms those people had in mind was the Kossuth coat-of-arms."
Congratulations. You just spat on Nagy Imre's grave by writing this. Some "utopia"; trust me it is not. It is our politics and this brings us to a collision course with your ideas.
Nevertheless we a common agenda here. Mr. Orban must go.
I wish you dedicated your time to actually helping people /how about we all here send our common letter of support to Ms. Tetenyi Eva in Esztergom?/ rather than writing half assed things about a great man whose message you obviously never got.
Sincerely:
Peter Litvanyi

peter litvanyi

It is time for a moment of laughter here:
"BLAME THE HUNGARIANS":
High quality global journalism requires investment. Please share this article with others using the link below, do not cut & paste the article. See our Ts&Cs and Copyright Policy for more detail. Email ftsales.support@ft.com to buy additional rights. http://blogs.ft.com/the-world/2011/11/when-in-doubt-blame-the-hungarians/#ixzz1f4dFPtrn


As the European Union’s crisis deepens, the search is on for scapegoats. A new candidate for this role was recently brought to my attention – the Hungarians. This is not because they have done everything wrong. It’s just that when it comes to international politics, Hungary is congenitally unlucky.

A Hungarian acquaintance argues that every organisation that Hungary has joined for the last 150 years has collapsed shortly afterwards. The Hapsburgs were one of the Europe’s most successful dynasties. But then in 1867, the Austro-Hungarian empire was formed, and by 1918 it had disappeared. Hungary chose the losing side in both the first and second world wars. After 1945, it became a member of the Warsaw Pact and Comecon. Given this long record of failure, the EU should have been on its guard when it welcomed Hungary as a member in 2004.

Sincerely:
Peter

Ron

Eva: While Viktor Orbán and György Matolcsy try to figure out what on earth to do before Hungary's finances collapse.

No they are not. They are shopping in Vienna. At least Maltolcsy. While the rest of Hungary has no money to pay for their Christmas presents.

http://herizonford.tumblr.com/post/13410924925/visszajottem-becsbol-herem

Btw why is he not spending his money in Hungary? Or is he wants to make Vienna dependent on Hungary's independent economy?

Ron

Peter: I wish you dedicated your time to actually helping people /how about we all here send our common letter of support to Ms. Tetenyi Eva in Esztergom?

Eva spent time and wrote a number of articles on Esztergom:
http://esbalogh.typepad.com/hungarianspectrum/2009/10/mayor-of-esztergom-hungary.html

http://esbalogh.typepad.com/hungarianspectrum/2010/02/is-freedom-of-speech-in-danger-in-hungary.html

http://esbalogh.typepad.com/hungarianspectrum/2010/10/the-former-mayor-of-esztergom-refuses-to-leave.html

http://esbalogh.typepad.com/hungarianspectrum/2010/10/esztergom-perhaps-the-voters-learned-a-thing-or-two.html

Another blog, this time in Dutch (use google translation) dedicated an article on Tetenyi and the situation in Esztergom.
http://www.scribblesfromhungary.com/2011/06/esztergom-een-hongaars-koningsdrama.html

You want to sent a letter to who? Tetenyi actually walked from Esztergom to Budapest to meet Viktor Orban with zero impact.

I do not think a letter will help. Pressure on the government to change the constitution, stop the new election law, and change back a few other laws may help.

Unfortunately, which has been proven many times, the government does not listen. Unless there is a court verdict or alternatively stop giving money.

Joseph Simon

The memory of of the 1956 revolution and Nagy Imre were kept alive by those of us who left after the repression. It is a sad fact that most people in Hungary now have little knowledge of the historic role played by Nagy and of his tragic end. Many Hungarians resent or simply donot care about 1956. Let's not forget that for thirty years his name and 1956 were taboo in Hungary. People are apathetic, preoccupied with the hardships of every day living, which is hard for most.

Some1

Ron: "While the rest of Hungary has no money to pay for their Christmas presents {Matolcsy shops in Vienna]"
True Hungarians shop in Vienna! An other legacy of Horthy era to follow.

Joseph Simon: " Many Hungarians resent or simply donot care about 1956...People are apathetic, preoccupied with the hardships of every day living, which is hard for most."
You got it all wrong again. It is NOT the Hungarians who want Imre Nagy to be forgotten. It is Viktor Orban. Do you remember? I also o not see the hardship of everyday living of Orban and Mataolcsy per see. Most Hungarians, wit the exception of the supreme right, has no intention to forget about Imre Nagy.

Imre Nagy became an obstacle for Orban. He used Imre Nagy until he needed him. The reburial of Imre Nagy was a stepping stone fir Orban, just lime hi atheism, his liberal values and so forth. "Friends" and political allies are all stepping stone for Orban. He changes his believes, morals and friends according to what will advance him the most. I do not feel sorry for any of his friends or believers when they finally fall from grace. I pity them because they knew who they serve, but they thought they will be the chosen ones. Just like under Stalin and Rakosi, closer you are, bigger you will fall.

Paul

Sackhoes Contributor - thank you for your post - informative, moving and well written (and what I was trying to say by "reluctantly took responsibility" - but expressed much more eloquently!).

I'm sure all on here would welcome more contributions from you. Perhaps you could arrange with Éva to fill in when she needs a day off?

HungaryWakeUp

this could be the most serious comment to the FT's lighthearted play on Hungarian history:

"High quality global journalism requires investment. Please share this article with others using the link below, do not cut & paste the article. See our Ts&Cs and Copyright Policy for more detail. Email ftsales.support@ft.com to buy additional rights. http://blogs.ft.com/the-world/2011/11/when-in-doubt-blame-the-hungarians/#ixzz1f6Tcny1O

Yol | November 28 11:21pm | Permalink
Darko, my sense of humour is gone. Tonight, democracy in Hungary officially ended. The Orban parliament just cancelled the independence of judiciary from the ruling party. They will decide for at least 12 years, whom to prosecute, they will appoint the judges for the trials, and they will demote or dismiss judges who will not follow the Party's demand.

The current head of the Supreme Court declared that the new system in the judicial branch will be more authoritarian than the Communists' was. He is right.

In a few days they will change the electoral system and will establish a new secret police that will have the right to know every aspect of people's lives, including political leaning and health records.

Hungary has become the dictatorship of cynical oligarchs and politicians headed by Orban.
The European Union's silence is deafening..."

Paul

"Just a few months ago, when I suggested that Orban is a wannabe Mussolini and his is a fascist government, the best I could get from you all was gentle waiving of hands and slight disapproval of the facial kind."

Perhaps you should read this blog more often before posting. I for one have been making this point (and more) for the last 18 months.

And, in defence of many of the other posters, while they do not share my view that the time for talking has long past, and that Orbán can only be removed by protest, strikes, etc, they do actually share your (and my) view as to what he is and what he's doing.

Paul

Prter and Hungary Wakeup - please check C&P before posting, you both included the FT's 'do not cut and paste' warning that they automatically generate when you C&P!

Sackhoes Contributor

Paul: thanks for your kind comments on my post. I will, of course, continue to make comments on the topics on this blog as time permits, but I would not dream of becoming an understudy for Eva Balogh. This is her blog and she is doing a great job with it. I do not always agree with her opinions, but I admire her dedication, her research and her wide knowledge.

Joseph Simon

A few years ago a book was published about Nagy Imre that he was in fact a KGB agent while in Moscow. Living in Hungary 4-5 months every year, I was saddened to see how many people, even my friends, believed this slander. People are almost annoyed when one brings up the heady days of '56.

Jano

Sackhoes: Let me thank you too, reading the post I really hoped that there would be a comment like yours under.

Joseph: It's not necessarily slander, people are not angels or devils. As Sackhoes wrote above, Nagy shared a lot of responsibility for the communist crimes between 45-53. But he made up for it. He came clean and died for his cause. In Romania, all he had to do was publicly condemning himself and the revolution and his life would have been spared (watch Márta Mészáros's movie about Nagy), but he refused.

GDF

Peter Litvanyi: "It is our politics and this brings us to a collision course with your ideas."

What group are you referring to when you say "our politics"?

Kirsten

Paul, but you should actually be impressed by the protests in Esztergom. It appears to be without much effect currently but should more people in other cities join in, this would be very serious for OV.


Paul

Re Sackhoes' post above - I forgot to comment on the 'open thread' idea suggested the other day*. I think this is an excellent idea (especially as so many of my posts are off-topic!), although I suspect we might have to wait until HS migrates to different blogging software before this is practicable!

*apologies to whoever suggested this - I forget which poster it was and I'm writing this on my phone, so it's impossible to look it up without losing the text (how 'smart' is that?!)

Eva S. Balogh

Peter Litvanyi: "Some "utopia"; trust me it is not. It is our politics and this brings us to a collision course with your ideas."

I was there and I know what I'm talking about. It was a Utopian idea that wouldn't have succeeded. I might have been only a politically inexperienced twenty-year-old but even I knew by the end of the twelfth day that Imre Nagy's new party would most likely lose at a free and fair elections.

Yet, that doesn't prevent me from thinking of him as a hero and as a great man who gave his life for something he believed in.

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