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« The Orbán government under fire: Endgame? | Main | S&P's justification for downgrading the Hungarian sovereign debt and its Hungarian "translation" »

December 21, 2011

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Paul

When will the good people of the left wake up? Orbán doesn't care about demonstrations, petitions or letters any more than he cares about democracy and fairness.

If he decides Klubrádió will go, it will go. I'm amazed he's allowed it to carry on as long as it has.

But losing frequencies doesn't have to mean the end, there are plenty of internet-only radio stations - a good example is Radio Caroline, the old British 'pirate' station from the 60s, which is still going strong on the internet nearly 50 years later.

Of course it will mean smaller, basic studios, staff working mostly for free, etc. But, if people really care about freedom of the airwaves in Hungary, they will do whatever they need to to keep Klubrádió going.

David

Viktor really is becoming a "pocket Putin".

I wonder whether it is technically/economically and legally feasible to set up a radio station just across the border in Slovakia, to broadcast to Budapest without government interference.

Ron

Paul, Hungary's internet penetration is only 61% (2011), with a spectacular growth since 2000 (700 plus%).

http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats9.htm#eu

Analysis of the data of 1st half of 2009 reveals that only the young ones up to 49 years are regular using internet.

http://www.nrc.eu/eng/actual?page=details&oldal=1&news_id=562&parentID=1023

The UK internet use is much higher. And knowing that most of the internet is in cities and not in the country side I expect that only 3 million use regular internet.

Vándorló

Utter disgust for the disdain shown to democratic principles is what any decent person should feel.

Which leaves me only to repeat and exchange I had with E.S.Balogh back on April 30th 2010 about the rádió-gate scandal. It was this scandal that led the respected lawyer Majtényi Lásztló to resign, allowing Szalai Annamária to take over his position.

The disgusting thing is that many openly condoned the breech of law.

=============
@ESBalogh: You condoned the MSZP-Fidesz actions over rádiógate that led to the resignation of an honest man, Majtényi László, over the scandal and now you are concerned that the puppet promoted in his place is continuing as expected?
MSZP has 8 clear years to clear up government and put these matters well beyond Fidesz's easy grasp. Instead they chose to work with Fidesz to stitch up the country, undermine democracy and spit in the face of honest people and their own laws.
I've detailed the faux efforts and dishonest cover Gyurcsány provided as a smoke screen to continue as usual - the international organisations (plural) that walked away appalled by the inaction, lack of transparency or just plain disdain for democratic principles.
Eight years, after which nothing changed. No-one feels themselves accountable, the people feel bitterly cheated and Orbán's actions just look like more of the same.
It is all completely disgusting and we know who to thank.

Posted by: Vándorló | April 30, 2010 at 05:12 AM


Vándorló: "You condoned the MSZP-Fidesz actions over rádiógate"

Condoned? I don't like when people distort my words. I said the following:

"Being a pragmatist, I wasn't especially upset about the "deal" if there was one. If the media law is written in such a way that it allows politics not just to interfere in but to direct the media outright and one party is taking full advantage of this situation then the other side must act accordingly. The other side is practically forced into making "deals" however distasteful that maybe."

I think I made it quite clear that the law itself is to blame that allows the media to be prey to politics. But at least there were two stations in question and an equitable "deal," however distasteful, could be made. This time there was only one station, the very last one in the capital city that would have been added to the numerous other right-wing outlets. It doesn't sound terribly fair to me.

Posted by: Eva S. Balogh | April 30, 2010 at 06:52 AM
==============

Disgusting, isn't it?

Kirsten

David, why not, it was possible in Berlin East and West, why should this not be possible in Komarno/Komarom. Whether you can reach Budapest, I am not sure. But the internet option appears the most 'promising' and that can be broadcast from any place in the world.

Ron

The Media Authority did not answer awkward questions.

http://www.noltv.hu/video/4062.html

GDF

Ron: "Hungary's internet penetration is only 61% (2011), with a spectacular growth since 2000 (700 plus%)...Analysis of the data of 1st half of 2009 reveals that only the young ones up to 49 years are regular using internet."

There is another issue: the majority of those under 49 do not listen to talk radio. They use the internet to listen to music. Those who really listen to a radiostation like Klub radio will simply loose the opportunity to listen to the opposition's points of view.

Maybe they should demonstrate in front of the US embassy and petition for the reinstatement of the Hungarian language Radio Free Europe. After all that is what everyone was listening to under the similar circumstances of the communist totalitarian system. I am curious if the government still has the jamming equipment available...

Kirsten

Vandorlo, I am glad to hear that you have eventually managed to organise those honest Hungarians, who feel appalled by the politicians and political business as observed during the past twenty years and who are able and willing to run the country instead. I was always hoping that this will happen at some moment and now I read that you know of a large group of people who need not be pragmatic in 'planet Hungary' (thank you, Mutt) but who are true to their principles and know that this truthfulness is the basis of the new, democratic and clean Hungary.

Paul

Ron - that's exactly the audience Klubrádió should be aiming at! Most of the rest are a lost cause, I'm afraid.


David - it's perfectly possible technically and has been done many times in different countries over the years (remember Radio Luxemburg?). Politically it might be a bit difficult, it depends on how well Hungary is getting on with the country concerned at the time, I suppose.

The two real problems with such an idea are jamming and finance.

Jamming radio stations is rarely done these days, but it used to be very common in places like the USSR (and even in the UK in the 70s the 'pirate' RNI was jammed by the British government). But it's a relatively easy/cheap thing to do and impossible to get round.

Finance is the real killer though. This is what finished off the UK offshore stations - no advertising, no station. And all the Hungarian government has to do is to declare it illegal to advertise on, or financially support, a station and that's more or less it.

Of course the same is true for an internet station, but it's a hell of a lot cheaper to run.

Although it can, of course, be blocked on government orders by all Hungarian ISPs...

GDF

Paul: "Of course it will mean smaller, basic studios, staff working mostly for free, etc. But, if people really care about freedom of the airwaves in Hungary, they will do whatever they need to to keep Klubrádió going."

The unfortunate truth is that even people who really care about freedom have to eat. Unless there is an organized opposition group that can raise funds to finances such an enterprise, without advertisement it is not viable.

Paul

Kirsten - it's just a technical issue: the height of the mast (aerial) and the power of the transmitter.

FM transmission need more power than AM and needs to be 'line-of-sight' (i.e. you have to be able to 'see' (theoretically) the aerial), so it's more expensive to reach any distance.

But, as a talk station, there's no reason why Klubrádió shouldn't go AM, then they could cover most of Hungary with a decent signal with a relatively small transmitter. Just 10kw would probably give a decent day-time signal in Budapest from just inside Slovakia. A 50kw transmitter would give a good signal over the whole country (and quite a bit of Europe at night!).

Paul

GDF - Radio Caroline runs almost entirely on subscriptions and donations, and has done so for at least 20 years. The sudios are rented, and the internet servers and connection, etc have to be paid for, but no staff are paid.

And I'm sure they aren't the only station to run like this.

It just depends on how badly you want to stay on the air.


Just in case anyone's interested - http://www.radiocaroline.co.uk/#home.html

Mutt Damon

It's not only the finances. The Orban government banned the talk radios by requiring them to broadcast 60% music and 25% local news. Even if the funds were available the Klub Radio would have not qualify. By the way this phantom company offered a 20-30 million HUF more, that is about 150k US dollars.

I was wondering what would the AM broadcast cost. It's a whole lot more expensive than the UHF band. It's in the 100 million HUF a year range.

There is no better word for it. They banned the opposition's talk radio.

@Vandorlo: What the hell are you talking about?? Are you sorry for the Klub radio or not?

GDF

Paul:"http://www.radiocaroline.co.uk/#home.html"

And what do they say about themselves? "With our philosphy of quality album music both old and new and less talk, we attract listeners of both sexes predominately from the 35-54 age group."

Yes, this probably works with music, I doubt it would work with talk radio.

Wondercat

Prof Balogh, is the Arató András involved with Klubrádió the leading paediatric gastroenterologist whom I value as a colleague? I should not be surprised to learn that the two men are the same -- instead, delighted.

Paul

GDF - of course it would work with talk radio! Why on earth wouldn't it? In some ways it's even less expensive as there is no copyright fee to pay on the music. Also the studio and equipment doesn't have to be as sophisticated.


Mutt - If anything, AM is cheaper as there are lots of old (but still serviceable) AM transmitters around and they are much easier to service and repair (providing you can get the parts).

The only problem with AM (apart from poorer quality, due to the lower bandwidth) is that you need a tall tower to suspend the aerial from - or a network of poles spread over quite a large area (depending on the type of aerial used). FM transmitters only require a small aerial, which, because they are usually only intended for local coverage, only needs to be at a medium height.

Another point in AM's favour is that there is a lot of spare capacity around. In the last couple of decades there has been a huge switch to FM, so many transmitter operators have spare 'slots', which they will often hire out very cheaply - so you don't even have to buy your own transmitter or worry about where the aerial is going to go.

There are also a huge number of engineers and other enthusiasts around who are happy to help set up and run this sort of radio project. Radio is a strange business - in that it isn't a 'business' to many people in the industry, it's a passion.

If Klubrádió wants to continue along the lines we're discussing, there will be no shortage of people willing to help out. And the more 'illegal' or clandestine, the better!

Wondercat

Ah. Prof Balogh, please neglect my question. I too late thought of a GOOGLE IMAGE enquiry. Different men, my Arato ur and Klubradio's.

CharlieH

Interfering English democrat here again!

London calling! (Very apposite in the above discussion if you know English history! - or even care!)

It's very sad when a respected broadcaster is silenced - especially a polemical one.

I said in a previous response:

"I am wondering - about how Orban is wondering - how he can put in measures that can control the Internet - a la China - I am sure it's just around the corner."

It could well happen if his fingerprints are all over the fiat to close Klub.

In London unofficial pirate FM radio stations have been the scourge of the emergency services - interfering with their transmissions.

Very portable radio stations are set up at the top of blocks of flats to broadcast their selection of obscure hip-hop and other esoteric pop music forms.

They are easily removed at the hint of a police raid and setup elsewhere - true urban guerilla radio! Very cheap and very powerful.

Surely it won't come to this? - But if it does then the flat flat flat Hungarian landscape would make detection very difficult and broadcast efficient? - well the Pest part if not Buda!

Paul is correct - there would be no shortage of dissident broadcasters!

Over and Out!

Regards Charlie

GW

Paul,

there are some major disadvantages to AM for Hungary -- most cellphones with radio only have FM and many cars and portable radios dispense with AM altogether now.

Paul

GW - good point, and one I was going to make, but my post was long (and boring) enough already.

It's an interesting problem and has affected a few recent attempts to set up radio stations. (The most notable being Atlantic 252, which attempted to broadcast on long wave (low frequency AM) from Ireland to the UK - completely forgetting that most radios don't have long wave these days!)

It's not just that radios often don't have AM bands, but that people have got out of the habit of listening to AM because of the poor quality. These days in the UK it's almost entirely reserved for speech, sport and 'gold' music stations.

But there might be more AM radios in Hungary than you think. All radios up to, and shortly after, the change of regime would have had AM, and, knowing Hungarian's dislike of throwing anything away, I suspect most of these are still lurking in attics and back rooms.

But, as always, needs must. It's still very easy to buy a radio with AM, and these tend to be quite cheap as well. So I'm sure that if Klubrádió started broadcasting on AM from (eg) Slovakia, the people who wanted to listen would soon dig out or buy suitable radios.

Also, listening on a 'retro' radio to a 'clandestine' station has a wonderful appeal, it would soon be the coolest thing to do, and people would feel that they were really involved in resistance to OV. A parallel with the 'samizdat' publications in the 80s.

Paul

Good link, Wondercat. I particularly liked "slow-motion coup" - very accurate.

Wondercat

http://kurier.at/wirtschaft/4478750-s-amp-p-senkt-bonitaet-ungarns.php

Another notch downward in Hungary's credit rating, political manoeuvres having worsened the nation's economic outlook...

Odin's Lost Eye

One of the things which the communists tried was to instil into everyone their political beliefs. The Viktator (the Supreme Ruler) is not going to make that mistake.

Politics in any shape or form is forbidden for the ordinary folk. They will have no way of sharing their views, and anyway their political opinion does not matter.

One thing which I find surprising is that there is no regulation of the internet yet. One does not need a ‘Great Wall of China’ type system. It is much simpler than that. The basic idea is that internet users are using ‘bandwidth’. This ‘bandwidth’ could be better used by the ‘Administration’ for their own communications. Therefore the internet users are depriving the ‘Administration’ of this valuable commodity.

To be able to use the internet, the private citizen should therefore require a licence. This licence would be issued when the prospective user has passed a test, produces suitable recommendation from an ‘Authority’, and pays an annual licence fee. The licence can be revoked at any time by the licensing ‘Authority’ for any reason (Including too much use). Without such a licence no ISP can give you service!

The same could be true of mobile phones users as it is for armature radio operators.

If there is no way dissent can be voiced then there can be no dissent.

Paul

The Forint is still holding firm(ish) - hovering around the 307 mark, no real sign of any impending collapse.

I still don't understand why!

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